Racially abused - advice please.
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The point I am making is that anyone who doesn't understand the difference between racial abuse (being called a black 
) and being mocked for being ginger, fat, wearing glasses, Welsh, bald and the like really shouldn't be allowed out without adult supervision.
The colour of a persons skin or hair from birth through no fault of their own is not the same as someone who through lifestyle has become obese.) and being mocked for being ginger, fat, wearing glasses, Welsh, bald and the like really shouldn't be allowed out without adult supervision.As per the post above its a hate crime to abuse goths etc but not yet ginger people.
La Liga said:
rb5er said:
Ah so you concede to the obvious logic. Very good.
Mk3Spitfire said:
I think you're fighting a losing battle with this one!
La Liga said:
I think you're right. It's not that hard to see the bigger picture and rationale, is it?
Why didn't you start off and tell us you didn't understand what words like "concede" mean? It would have saved us time taking the time to try to help you understand more 'complex' things, like why the law is as it is. Giving up fighting a losing battle means you concede to defeat. Especially when resorting to an attempt of petty mockery.
Why the law is as it is - Yes I can see the law is as it is but in so many areas it is well known that the law is an ass, just as in this sort of case. Abuse is abuse. Some people are just much more ready to call the police at the hint of any verbal abuse. Its an adjective. The threat of violence the lady received is a much more serious offence than a bit of adjective name calling.
rb5er said:
As per the post above its a hate crime to abuse goths etc but not yet ginger people.
Any crime can be recorded as "hate" if the motivation and demonstration of hostility is linked to a specific attribute. Aggravating factors can consider people being targeted for any specific reason, but those aren't specified from the outset in statute as their scale and risk isn't sufficient to justify that. rb5er said:
Giving up fighting a losing battle means you concede to defeat. Especially when resorting to an attempt of petty mockery.
You not understanding why certain motivations and attitudes are much riskier than others, and justify specific laws isn't losing. If you're unable to consider the bigger picture and think in terms of risk I can't help you. Fundamentally, we have different view points, so it isn't a "win / lose" situation in that respect. Although in the respect of statute and how things actually are, then you can frame it as a "win / lose" situation if you so wish, but you occupy the "lose" spot, so I doubt you'll wish to.
rb5er said:
Some people are just much more ready to call the police at the hint of any verbal abuse.
It's not about the individual. Why you can't see past that? rb5er said:
As per the post above its a hate crime to abuse goths etc but not yet ginger people.
That's not exactly what I said.I am not actually aware of any cases where a Ginger has been assaulted just because they are ginger.
I'm not aware of gangs wandering the streets specifically looking for gingers to beat up.
This does happen for blacks and other ethnic groups, for goths and other 'social' groups and for gays and other alt lifestyle people.
They get targeted specifically because of who they are.
Gingers get teased. Same as grey haired people, bald people etc.
If they get into a fight or shouting match then physical characteristics are often insulted.
But it's a million miles from being a target of hate and abuse.
Hol said:
IanA2 said:
Racism is a corrosive pernicious rash in our society, I think most of us agree.
Overt racism is actually easier to deal, eg name calling or being spat at in the street.
The more subtle forms are more deeply ingrained and more damaging.
A good example, which I have come across on several occasions, is when a BAME professional female makes a suggestion at a meeting and it is either ignored or ridiculed. Fast forward a few months and the same suggestion is made by a white man he is complimented on bringing such an innovative idea to the organisation.
That stuff is difficult to deal with, if it were to be suggested for one second that there were any racist undertones, the level of righteous indignation would generate enough heat to warm a siberian palace. And I think you can forget reporting it to the police!
Believe me, this happens, I've seen to too many times to offer an alternative explanation.
What industry do you work in?Overt racism is actually easier to deal, eg name calling or being spat at in the street.
The more subtle forms are more deeply ingrained and more damaging.
A good example, which I have come across on several occasions, is when a BAME professional female makes a suggestion at a meeting and it is either ignored or ridiculed. Fast forward a few months and the same suggestion is made by a white man he is complimented on bringing such an innovative idea to the organisation.
That stuff is difficult to deal with, if it were to be suggested for one second that there were any racist undertones, the level of righteous indignation would generate enough heat to warm a siberian palace. And I think you can forget reporting it to the police!
Believe me, this happens, I've seen to too many times to offer an alternative explanation.
Because in the finance industry you have multiple company financed and backed ethnic centric working groups operating in many of the known financial institutions. The same also for women in the workplace and LGT employees.
Your scenario would never happen the way you describe it.
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
And as for the NHS:
When I moved from developing and coaching individuals in the commercial sector to the world of the NHS, women made up 77 per cent of the workforce – they still do, and hold only 37 per cent of board positions, and just over 30 per cent of NHS chief executive roles. In this context, the NHS Confederation has set the goal of having 50 per cent more women on all NHS boards by 2018 – an unambitious target given the benefits attributed to having greater diversity in leadership.
Leaders across health and care agree that much more needs to be done to address the low representation of women in senior medical leadership roles. It has taken 214 years for the Royal College of Surgeons to elect a female president, for example (Miss Clare Marx took over this role on 10 July). And of course, it is not only in terms of gender that there is a mismatch between the composition of those at the top of organisations compared to staff and the patient population: the black and minority ethnic population is largely excluded from senior positions, both as NHS managers and as NHS trust board members.
Lifted from a Kings Fund Blogger, see: http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2014/07/herstory-...
When I moved from developing and coaching individuals in the commercial sector to the world of the NHS, women made up 77 per cent of the workforce – they still do, and hold only 37 per cent of board positions, and just over 30 per cent of NHS chief executive roles. In this context, the NHS Confederation has set the goal of having 50 per cent more women on all NHS boards by 2018 – an unambitious target given the benefits attributed to having greater diversity in leadership.
Leaders across health and care agree that much more needs to be done to address the low representation of women in senior medical leadership roles. It has taken 214 years for the Royal College of Surgeons to elect a female president, for example (Miss Clare Marx took over this role on 10 July). And of course, it is not only in terms of gender that there is a mismatch between the composition of those at the top of organisations compared to staff and the patient population: the black and minority ethnic population is largely excluded from senior positions, both as NHS managers and as NHS trust board members.
Lifted from a Kings Fund Blogger, see: http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2014/07/herstory-...
My long term girlfriend was told "fk off back home you fking immigrant" by some white scum whilst she was minding her home business walking to the train station from work. This probably won't go down well but I thought it was quite funny. Mainly because it's a retarded statement as she was born in England.
k off back home you fking immigrant" by some white scum whilst she was minding her home business walking to the train station from work. This probably won't go down well but I thought it was quite funny. Mainly because it's a retarded statement as she was born in England.IanA2 said:
Seems that not everyone agrees with your take on the finance sector, see:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
Well, I guess my true life experience vs your made up story of two supposed meeting month apart upset you more than you care to admit,http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
That article is about sexual equality, and not the racial equality that you were trying to argue about.
Here's a random link for you. (Not a company I have worked for in 25 years).
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/our-group/respon...
Edited by Hol on Thursday 31st July 19:12
Hol said:
IanA2 said:
Seems that not everyone agrees with your take on the finance sector, see:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
Well, I guess my true life experience vs your made up story of two supposed meeting month apart upset you more than you care to admit,http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
That article is about sexual equality, and not the racial equality that you were trying to argue about.
Here's a random link for you. (Not a company I have worked for in 25 years).
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/our-group/respon...
Edited by Hol on Thursday 31st July 19:12
As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Edited by IanA2 on Thursday 31st July 19:51
Hol said:
IanA2 said:
Seems that not everyone agrees with your take on the finance sector, see:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
Well, I guess my true life experience vs your made up story of two supposed meeting month apart upset you more than you care to admit,http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/legal-and-polic...
That article is about sexual equality, and not the racial equality that you were trying to argue about.
Here's a random link for you. (Not a company I have worked for in 25 years).
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/our-group/respon...
Edited by Hol on Thursday 31st July 19:12
As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Edited by IanA2 on Thursday 31st July 20:11
IanA2 said:
So you think BAME's get better treated than women? That seems to be the logic in what you are saying.
As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Don't put words in my mouth, I have told you what I think already, and I resent your trying to pretend I am saying something else.As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Edited by IanA2 on Thursday 31st July 20:11
I have given you proof, but if your own prejudices make you think an entire industry and companies with tens of thousands of people in them are lying and all those senior people don't exist....(because that differs to YOUR view).
Then you are either bonkers, or you just get your kicks from trying to create racial hatred.
23rdian said:
I didn't read all the thread as its a bit of a yawnfest but while its not exactly nice its not really the worst thing that can happen to someone is it? Its just a few words despite all the hand wringing here?
I've seen sense now you've piped up. What are we getting all our knickers in a twist for eh...23rdian said:
I didn't read all the thread as its a bit of a yawnfest but while its not exactly nice its not really the worst thing that can happen to someone is it? Its just a few words despite all the hand wringing here?
Having someone attack you with a machete and cut both your arms off isn't really the worst thing that can happen to you, as they could have cut your legs off too. However, despite it not really being the worst thing that can happen, I'd be a bit peeved about losing my arms and would probably want to report it to the police.
Certain things are illegal for a reason. Following your logic, genocide would be the only thing really worth making a fuss about.
Hol said:
IanA2 said:
So you think BAME's get better treated than women? That seems to be the logic in what you are saying.
As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Don't put words in my mouth, I have told you what I think already, and I resent your trying to pretend I am saying something else.As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Edited by IanA2 on Thursday 31st July 20:11
I have given you proof, but if your own prejudices make you think an entire industry and companies with tens of thousands of people in them are lying and all those senior people don't exist....(because that differs to YOUR view).
Then you are either bonkers, or you just get your kicks from trying to create racial hatred.
Facts:
Lloyds Banking Group
The Board
Twelve Exec and Non-Execs.
Of which:
• Nine are men
• Three are women
• None are BAMES
Getting the picture ?
ETA: See http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/our-group/direct...
Edited by IanA2 on Friday 1st August 03:25
BAME, that's a new one on me, I had to Google it.
It kind of reminds me of the writer Sharpe in one of his books who created PORG (person of restricted growth) as calling someone a dwarf is non PC.
Racism/hate crime seems to be getting less as generations pass, thankfully. I would hope eventually we get to a point where BAME or any sort of positive discrimination is irrelevant and unnecessary....doubtful I know, but we can but hope
It kind of reminds me of the writer Sharpe in one of his books who created PORG (person of restricted growth) as calling someone a dwarf is non PC.
Racism/hate crime seems to be getting less as generations pass, thankfully. I would hope eventually we get to a point where BAME or any sort of positive discrimination is irrelevant and unnecessary....doubtful I know, but we can but hope
IanA2 said:
Hol said:
IanA2 said:
So you think BAME's get better treated than women? That seems to be the logic in what you are saying.
As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Don't put words in my mouth, I have told you what I think already, and I resent your trying to pretend I am saying something else.As to your "supposed meeting" stuff, you've lost me.
I'm not upset about anything you have said. What upsets me is the misery caused by descrimination, in whatever form it takes.
ETA: I've had a look at your link. Fine words indeed. Any stats to suggest that the words are turned into action or, if we look at the Board, will we find that it is predominately white and male.?
Maybe we should just wait for the Inquiry to inform us.
Edited by IanA2 on Thursday 31st July 20:11
I have given you proof, but if your own prejudices make you think an entire industry and companies with tens of thousands of people in them are lying and all those senior people don't exist....(because that differs to YOUR view).
Then you are either bonkers, or you just get your kicks from trying to create racial hatred.
Facts:
Lloyds Banking Group
The Board
Twelve Exec and Non-Execs.
Of which:
• Nine are men
• Three are women
• None are BAMES
Getting the picture ?
ETA: See http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/our-group/direct...
Edited by IanA2 on Friday 1st August 03:25
Banks have thousands of senior positions, Divisional MD's, Lawyers, Tax Specialists, Asset Managers etc.
And just because YOU don't want it to be true, will not change the facts about diversity in financial services.
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