Parking Eye - £100 "fine" for meeting someone @ Fleet servic

Parking Eye - £100 "fine" for meeting someone @ Fleet servic

Author
Discussion

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
AA999 said:
I think that argument would need to look at the "intended use of land".
The intended use of a public car park is for the public to park their cars there. Just about all of these used to be free up and down the country a while ago, and now there are a number of parasitic companies viewing this land as a means to make somebody very rich.

Is your private driveway intended for public parking or just your own private use parking? There is a clear difference in the intention of use of the land and I've seen the private driveway example being used before in these PPC threads. To me I don't think it sticks.
The intended use of land is to allow the public to park there, to go in and avail themselves of the services and buy stuff. It isn't so that people can park there and do other things. The primary issue is people parking and meeting up then driving off in another car.

Phatboy317

801 posts

117 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
The primary issue is people parking and meeting up then driving off in another car.
Then do something about that, and don't attempt to extort money from those who inadvertently overstay the allowed time by a smallish amount, which was, incidentally, the primary issue posed by the OP.
There are too many money-grubbers around who profit from the small mistakes of others.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Phatboy317 said:
Then do something about that, and don't attempt to extort money from those who inadvertently overstay the allowed time by a smallish amount, which was, incidentally, the primary issue posed by the OP.
There are too many money-grubbers around who profit from the small mistakes of others.
I think they are. 2 hours is a long time for anyone to stay at a services. They're hardly holiday camps are they? You don't accidentally stay somewhere for 2 hours plus.

blueg33

35,586 posts

223 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Loon

The FACT is that enforcement and fees charged have to be within the law. Generally the penalties etc are not within the law.

I don't see why you appear to condone a company taking money from the public in a manner which contravenes a number of statutes.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Jesus fking Christ. How many times?

I don't give a st about the parking company and their charges. I do give a st about the standard whining when
people break rules and then say it's always someone else's fault. Whether the rules are technically correct is a moot point, it's the fact they blatantly ignore them and then start bleating about it that pisses me off.

Anyway 2 hours 31 mins in a services talking about cars? Bullst, they were bumming each other in the woods nearby.

Hol

8,360 posts

199 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Lol.

It's deffo another - I broke the rules, but I think I should be exempt because I xxxyyyzzz, thread.


Just admit you were wrong and learn from it, as others who read about it, will also learn.





blueg33

35,586 posts

223 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Yes the op broke the rules but the consequence is both disproportionate and potentially illegal.

So op is justified whinging in that context.

Phatboy317

801 posts

117 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Fine, then we can introduce summary beheading for anyone caught stepping on a crack.
Or is that going too far, and, if so, just where do you think the line should be drawn?
We used to poke fun at the jobsworths and Mainwarings of the world - now it seems we're becoming ruled by them.

Mr. Potato Head

1,142 posts

218 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
I discovered from this thread that if you are tired and it may kill, that you should grab a coffee from Costa and keep on driving*

  1. cheaper

Hol

8,360 posts

199 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Free parking for the first two hours.

£25 inclusive for the next six hours
£75 inclusive for the following 12 hours




Does that make it fairer???





Mr. Potato Head

1,142 posts

218 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Hol said:
£25 inclusive for the next six hours
£75 inclusive for the following 12 hours
5 quid for a coffee. I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. I'm not skint, but other people are.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
speedyguy said:
Not much help I'm afraid were you going North or South,

You have to drive past the attached picture to enter the NB car park and a Google streetview shows signs all over the car park.

And no you don't have to "spend a penny" wobble whilst you are in there to get the 2 hr free parking.

Google "DfT 02/2013" page 17 I think.

Southbound. Truth be told I didn't even think to look for any signs relating to parking as it was free!
That sign is on the northbound side and the logo clearly shows the operator is CP Plus. The ones on the southbound are completely different. The Google streetview images are old (July 2009 northbound and September 2010 southbound). PE are the current southbound operator.

pmjg66 said:
We just ignored the 3 threatening letters and heard nothing since,although the law has changed and you are legally obliged to say who the driver was,but that is all.
I do wish people would check their facts first before posting incorrect information. There is NOTHING in PoFA 2012 which obliges the RK to divulge the name of the driver. PPCs who have made such claims in their (non-compliant) NtKs have had their knuckles rapped and had to cancel the PCN on appeal. All they can do is INVITE the RK to provide the information: see Schedule 4 Section 9(2)(e). If the RK does so within the prescribed time frame it's their get-out-of-jail-free card: see Section 9 (2)(f).

LoonR1 said:
Bloody hell, you lot do get all defensive about this.

The fact is that somebody owns some land and wants to control who uses it. Do you guys just roll up and park wherever you want with impunity?

I'm damn sure not all of you will have company parking, so where do you park? On the street, or in another company's car park? They're unlikely to own the building and car park.
The issue is not about landowners' right to control parking but the PPC business model which was elegantly exposed by DDJ Buckley in Parking Eye v Clarke.
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/pa...
http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html
See paragraph 15.

If PE is such an upstanding organisation why does it go to the lengths it does to obfuscate, mislead, and even lie? Evidence bundles running to hundreds of pages, inconsistencies in redaction of contracts, dodgy witness statements. All in an attempt to bamboozle POPLA assessors and the courts.

On the question of company parking, we had a serious problem with people with commuters/workers in the local town taking advantage and causing serious problems with deliveries. Did we engage the services of a rapacious PPC? No, we were mindful of our civic responsibilities: we installed a remotely operated gate.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
On the question of company parking, we had a serious problem with people with commuters/workers in the local town taking advantage and causing serious problems with deliveries. Did we engage the services of a rapacious PPC? No, we were mindful of our civic responsibilities: we installed a remotely operated gate.
What about the responsibilities of commuters/workers not to be selfish twunts?

My brother's firm has (supposedly) reserved parking for staff to load and unload company vans. Despite the numerous signs saying "No Parking" quite a few people don't care. They'll park up and wander off to the local shops for anywhere between 5 minutes and 6 hours. So usually they get blocked in and apparently a few of the "parkers" have had their cars vandalised. I don't condone it but I can understand why it happens; Newton's third Law - twuntish behaviour results in equal and opposite twuntish behaviour.

FWIW if I drive into any car park I'll always check what the restrictions/rules are. they're normally well signposted.

pmjg66

2,706 posts

213 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
pmjg66 said:
We just ignored the 3 threatening letters and heard nothing since,although the law has changed and you are legally obliged to say who the driver was,but that is all.
I do wish people would check their facts first before posting incorrect information. There is NOTHING in PoFA 2012 which obliges the RK to divulge the name of the driver. PPCs who have made such claims in their (non-compliant) NtKs have had their knuckles rapped and had to cancel the PCN on appeal. All they can do is INVITE the RK to provide the information: see Schedule 4 Section 9(2)(e). If the RK does so within the prescribed time frame it's their get-out-of-jail-free card: see Section 9 (2)(f).
Yes my bad,Whilst such private land fines used to be very easy to escape by refusing the details of the driver, as these companies only have a contract with the driver, the law changed in October 2012 when the Protection of Freedoms Act came into force in and this makes the registered keeper liable for the penalty if he does not disclose the details of the driver within 28 days.

Hol

8,360 posts

199 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Mr. Potato Head said:
Hol said:
£25 inclusive for the next six hours
£75 inclusive for the following 12 hours
5 quid for a coffee. I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. I'm not skint, but other people are.
I see you deliberately ignored the free bit?.

People have a choice, as the services are not the only place you can eat and drink - like the vendors in a theme park or at motor racing circuit.

Everybody can leave a junction earlier and drive Ito the local town for Half price coffee, and per the hour in town parking if they are offended by rip off prices.

Just don't compare to a layby burger van with minimal overheads and facilities.




Edited by Hol on Sunday 27th July 15:27

Mr. Potato Head

1,142 posts

218 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Hol said:
I see you deliberately ignored the free bit?.
I didn't ignore the free bit, I acknowledged the poor bit

AA999

5,180 posts

216 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
This is what results when we have local authorities and their "war on the motorist" attitudes.
The increase in population numbers resulting in increase of car ownership means more parking is required.....BUT...with local authorities and governments attitudes with their 'green agendas' we see removal of public spaces within town centres to park, ever more restrictions on existing parking, and ever more costly parking..... of course people will try to use what is left for convenient parking.

This is where the vultures step in, in the form of PPCs.

A lot of people vent their anger towards the PPC and rightly so because much of their 'operations' are purely relying on people's desperation to go about thier daily lives knowing full well that the conditions have been set for many to trigger one of their invoices.

What I don't get is why some on here like to view this as a black and white issue whereby everyone should follow the letter of these PPCs rules under the sentiment of 'your fault, you lose' attitude?


What we should be doing, and what I have done numerous times in the past, is to write letters and emails to the local authority to take away restrictions on parking and to provide more convenient parking for the public.

I have had mixed results on this with my local authority. There are one or two individuals who basically dig their heels in and spout the dire green stuff to support their position, but there are one or two that actually have some business sense and a realisation that they not serving the public will/demand.

So for example, a local supermarket recently opened and the local council received numerous letter to make this in to a convenient town centre car park. This was actually done and there is now free parking for many cars within 3mins walk of the town centre. 3 hours maximum stay however, but it is much better than pay and display, and it a reasonable length for most visits to the town.

But as a result of the above decision there have been additional double yellows painted on certain parts of the roads.

I have a feeling that every local council has been infiltrated by many 'greens' and it is always a case of the ones with business and people knowledge having to fight their case against the numerous green policies that are argued by certain 'embedded' persons.

So instead of supporting these PPCs we should fight them and importantly fight the local authorities over the issue.

This thread in particular is not much of a local authority iussue (do they have much involvement in service stations?)...so fight the PPC defintely, advice given so far by following and gaining direction from pepipoo would always be my choice.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Hol said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
Hol said:
£25 inclusive for the next six hours
£75 inclusive for the following 12 hours
5 quid for a coffee. I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. I'm not skint, but other people are.
I see you deliberately ignored the free bit?.

People have a choice, as the services are not the only place you can eat and drink - like the vendors in a theme park or at motor racing circuit.

Everybody can leave a junction earlier and drive Ito the local town for Half price coffee, and per the hour in town parking if they are offended by rip off prices.

Just don't compare to a layby burger van with minimal overheads and facilities.




Edited by Hol on Sunday 27th July 15:27
Oh you mean like this
http://www.thegardencentregroup.co.uk/services/mot... or any Tesco, Asda etc just off the motorway which just don't meet the requirements to be signed they are not much different to MSA's even less so if we get 24hr trading on a sunday,

If you can't be assed planning your journey or taking sandwiches then pay over the odds ?
Last week many people stuck on the M6 motorway last week moaned about the police taking their time to dish out Water, how about being prepared and having your own idea

Many of the above also stipulate a 2 or 3 hr max stay but they are not enforced to by Govt policy, many near council car parks refund your parking. Not at Peel holdings car parks though near town centres they expect you to pay and no refund in the shops on their retail park, I rarely bother using it.

The only answer is barriers like NCP ?
How do you expect those to work safely on MSA's ?
The rear access barriers are regularly criminally damaged with the BIB taking no action.

Mr. Potato Head

1,142 posts

218 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Whoosh.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Red Devil said:
On the question of company parking, we had a serious problem with people with commuters/workers in the local town taking advantage and causing serious problems with deliveries. Did we engage the services of a rapacious PPC? No, we were mindful of our civic responsibilities: we installed a remotely operated gate.
What about the responsibilities of commuters/workers not to be selfish twunts?
It's an imperfect world. There will always be a minority like this, so it's how you solve the problem that matters. Organisations which are entirely geared to making massive profits from a fundamentally flawed business model lack any semblance of fairness. The zeal with which the likes of PE do whatever they think they can get away with in the dash for cash is testament to the shoddiness of the entire industry.

In many cases these companies are run by the same unsavoury people who used to operate clamping outfits - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-542355/Jud...
Wearing a posh suit and living in an expensive property doesn't magically transform you into an upstanding citizen.