Constructive dismassal due to pregnancy??? Please help!

[SteveC72]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Jobs come and go. If any employer is hell bent of sacking you they will do so and take their chances in an employment tribunal. Whether that is worth fighting is a personal decision.

OP, you have been blessed with something you thought wouldn't happen. I seems to me you would both be better of concentrating on this child now rather that incurring all the stress and potential cost of fighting this employer very far. It may help her subsequent employment prospects if she resigns rather than waits until sacked.

If your wife has previous employment to this the chances are she can claim Maternity Allowance direct from the Government.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

I wanted to say this as well, but didn't think it was appropriate at the time.

Unfortunately employers can pretty much do as they please , it's just a question of how much it'll cost them. If they want to dismiss then there's not going to be much you'll be able to do about it, other than bring a subsequent tribunal.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if you win a tribunal then the tribunal has no power to enforce payment. Should this happen then you'll need to go through a separate process with a High Court Enforcement Officer to retrieve the money and, although there is a fast track system for this, an employer that knows how to play the system can make it a long and difficult process for you.

I would think nowadays that most companies, particularly larger ones, would be more responsible than this, but, it does happen. I've seen this personally and the time, stress and cost involved made it a very hollow victory.

Try and find out what you stand to gain from a successful tribunal claim and work out if it's going to be worth it, particularly with a baby on the way.

On a positive note, congratulations and I wish you and the Missus all the very best.

Steve

[SickFish]

SteveC72 said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Jobs come and go. If any employer is hell bent of sacking you they will do so and take their chances in an employment tribunal. Whether that is worth fighting is a personal decision.

OP, you have been blessed with something you thought wouldn't happen. I seems to me you would both be better of concentrating on this child now rather that incurring all the stress and potential cost of fighting this employer very far. It may help her subsequent employment prospects if she resigns rather than waits until sacked.

If your wife has previous employment to this the chances are she can claim Maternity Allowance direct from the Government.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

I wanted to say this as well, but didn't think it was appropriate at the time.

Unfortunately employers can pretty much do as they please , it's just a question of how much it'll cost them. If they want to dismiss then there's not going to be much you'll be able to do about it, other than bring a subsequent tribunal.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if you win a tribunal then the tribunal has no power to enforce payment. Should this happen then you'll need to go through a separate process with a High Court Enforcement Officer to retrieve the money and, although there is a fast track system for this, an employer that knows how to play the system can make it a long and difficult process for you.

I would think nowadays that most companies, particularly larger ones, would be more responsible than this, but, it does happen. I've seen this personally and the time, stress and cost involved made it a very hollow victory.

Try and find out what you stand to gain from a successful tribunal claim and work out if it's going to be worth it, particularly with a baby on the way.

On a positive note, congratulations and I wish you and the Missus all the very best.

Steve

Hi Steve, appreciate your comments.

To be honest, it's not really about "winning" or "losing" the Mrs would rather just keep her job and be treated fairly and like everyone else she works with. If she was actually "underperforming" and not pulling her weight I'd have very little sympathy but unfortunately this is not the case.

If she was to lose her job right now it would throw a rather large spanner in the works with regard to saving for the babies birth as I would be the sole provider.... lets face it, nobody will employ a 15 week pregnant bird (rightly or wrongly).

Anyway, a H&S review of her role is now booked in for Monday, I am quite interested in seeing the results if I am honest

[AKindSoul]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711242/Co-Fermanagh-bakery-ordered-pay-23-000-worker-sacked-pregnant.html

[SickFish]

AKindSoul said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711242/Co-Fermanagh-bakery-ordered-pay-23-000-worker-sacked-pregnant.html

Hmmmmm interesting......

[anonymous-user]

SickFish said:

Hmmmmm interesting......

Have you spoken to the lawyer?

I really would do so before anything else.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 31st July 12:26

[Vaud]

SickFish said:

Hmmmmm interesting......

Don't use that as an example, it was much simpler at first glance.

Lawyer first...

[SickFish]

Vaud said:

SickFish said:

Hmmmmm interesting......

Don't use that as an example, it was much simpler at first glance.

Lawyer first...

Haha I will not be using a Daily Mail article don't worry

Legal reps are being consulted (thanks again BV)

[Red Devil]

SickFish said:

AKindSoul said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711242/Co-Fermanagh-bakery-ordered-pay-23-000-worker-sacked-pregnant.html

Hmmmmm interesting......

To me the most interesting thing about the case is that the claimant had counsel instructed by the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland.
I wonder if its UK equivalent would be as helpful to Mrs S, should push come to shove.

@ SickFish. Instead of the Daily Wail read this. There are specifics about that case which distinguish it from Mrs S's.
In particular the unbelievably stupid conduct of the employer. I suspect the adversary Mrs S is facing may be slightly less incompetent.

IANAL so am not qualified to give legal advice but, having been on both sides of the fence on this issue, I know how the game is played.

Edited by Red Devil on Thursday 31st July 13:06

[SickFish]

SickFish said:

Breadvan72 said:

As the employer has lawyered up, I suggest you do also, OP. David Ludlow at Barlow Robbins would be my suggestion for this one. Don't sign any docs for the time being.

I think their solicitor also doubles as an HR bod so not sure what the angle is with regards to C.Cing him in but we certainly smell a rat.

Her hand has been forced with regards to the signing of the document, however, we have responded "with comments" refuting all blame (I have gone into a little more detail in reply to your email - thanks again for that)

ETA we will be contacting David Ludlow ASAP.

Just want to say a huge thanks to Gerard (Breadvan72), I discussed in length the matter with David Ludlow and we now have a plan of attack as well as knowing exactly where we stand.

Mrs Fish is now relatively comfortable at work, knowing the law is on her side so at least that stress has been alleviated. now it's just a waiting game to see her employers next move

[sugerbear]

ralphrj said:

BV advice is what is needed but google found this article

http://careers.theguardian.com/careers-blog/perfor...

article said:

If you are being pressured to sign an acknowledgement of the Pip, you should make it clear either at the bottom of the Pip or in a separate email that your signature is under protest and that the terms of the Pip are not agreed, and why.

I wish i had seen that about 8 years ago. I stupidly signed one during a difficult patch of my then career (my divorce + a failing senior manager who was looking for a scapegoat). Without doubt the worst thing I ever did was agreeing to sign the PIP. I quite easily managed to meet it, but at the next annual review I recieved a "below expected mark" which then kicked off the whole process again. (Luckily for me I wanted redundency so it was a godsend as volunteering + my previous PIP ensured I was out in the first wave!).

[SickFish]

Well, things have certainly taken a bit of a nose dive.....

Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.

Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.

Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.

Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.

She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.

All-in-all a very stty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap

As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way

[Centurion07]

I hope you're keeping all those email reports and, hopefully, evidence to contradict them?

[SickFish]

Centurion07 said:

I hope you're keeping all those email reports and, hopefully, evidence to contradict them?

Of course- they are being immediately forwarded to a personal email address as well as being printed off (should they start to play dirty)

[SickFish]

It is also interesting to note that the other people these reports and subsequent bking emails are not on a PIP etc..... IMO that just strengthens our stance of 'unfavourable treatment'

[ikarl]

Be careful.....getting sacked for sending confidential work information to your personal email address is a completely different kettle of fish!

IMHO that sounds like it could sit in the realms of gross misconduct. Hopefully BV will be along to tell me to shut up and that I'm wrong - not trying to be curt BV, I hope I'm wrong on this

[SickFish]

ikarl said:

Be careful.....getting sacked for sending confidential work information to your personal email address is a completely different kettle of fish!

IMHO that sounds like it could sit in the realms of gross misconduct. Hopefully BV will be along to tell me to shut up and that I'm wrong - not trying to be curt BV, I hope I'm wrong on this

Hmmmm that is a rather good point actually..... Thanks for the heads up!

I'll get the Mrs to cover her tracks, although, nothing 'confidential' has been sent it would be prudent to be whiter than white I think and give them no excuses.

ETA: She isn't as thick as I thought she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items'

I've told her to not do it again however and to just print things off and keep them in a file.

Edited by SickFish on Monday 11th August 16:39

[anonymous-user]

Check the email policy. What are these reports? Do they contain information that is confidential? It may be better to send copies to your legal advisor, if you need to (NB IF you need to). Doing so on the basis that you are seeking to obtain advice and seek protection against unlawful conduct is very different to grabbing company info for some illegitimate purpose. Do not conduct any other correspondence with your solicitor via a work email address as you do not wish to waive privilege in your communications.

[SickFish]

Breadvan72 said:

Check the email policy. What are these reports? Do they contain information that is confidential? It may be better to send copies to your legal advisor, if you need to (NB IF you need to). Doing so on the basis that you are seeking to obtain advice and seek protection against unlawful conduct is very different to grabbing company info for some illegitimate purpose. Do not conduct any other correspondence with your solicitor via a work email address as you do not wish to waive privilege in your communications.

The reports have not been forwarded, it was purely a comms trail - no confidential information. The reports are merely an excel spread sheet with a list of 'jobs' and their status beside them. No names or confidential information whatsoever.

All correspondence with our legal advisor has been through a personal email address rather than a work email address; she is aware that her manager has the ability to read emails (whether he does or doesn't is another matter).

[littleredrooster]

SickFish said:

ETA: She isn't as thick as I thought she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items'

Not entirely bulletproof, unfortunately. A company I worked for in the recent past made a copy of EVERY incoming and outgoing email at the server. Deleting from an individual mailbox didn't delete the server copy; an electronic trail was always available.

SickFish said:

I've told her to not do it again however and to just print things off and keep them in a file.

This is a better bet to avoid any accusations of questionable activity.

[geeks]

SickFish said:

ETA: She isn't as thick as I thought she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items'

Just to warn you any IT bod worth their salt will be able to pull logs to show the email being sent and also depending on the way email is configured it could be restored back to her sent items as well.

Don't wish to worry you but deleting from sent and then from deleted items wont cover her tracks as it were.

Other than that i have nothing constructive to add beyond all the best Mr and Mrs Fish on the Junior Fish!