Constructive dismassal due to pregnancy??? Please help!
Discussion
Most IT systems record every email going in and out
I run reports on all emails on our corporate system going to personal hosts (hotmail, Google etc)
Lots of companies would have her out the door ASAP due to DPA, client confidentiality if they found work reports going to personal email accounts. You might argue it was for unfair dismissal evidence etc... Even if legally you can do it (I have no idea) you would have to go through the hassle of arguing the toss
OP I would concentrate on the health of your baby, you might win the battle, but the stress could really affect your relationship with your partner and possibly the baby.
Yes you might end up with less money, but speaking from experience pregnancies are stressful enough when they go to plan, I wouldn't want my partner suffering the stress and anguish of sitting through a horrid workplace environment during the initial stages of pregnancy . Especially when the first trimester can be argued as the hardest on the mother.
I run reports on all emails on our corporate system going to personal hosts (hotmail, Google etc)
Lots of companies would have her out the door ASAP due to DPA, client confidentiality if they found work reports going to personal email accounts. You might argue it was for unfair dismissal evidence etc... Even if legally you can do it (I have no idea) you would have to go through the hassle of arguing the toss
OP I would concentrate on the health of your baby, you might win the battle, but the stress could really affect your relationship with your partner and possibly the baby.
Yes you might end up with less money, but speaking from experience pregnancies are stressful enough when they go to plan, I wouldn't want my partner suffering the stress and anguish of sitting through a horrid workplace environment during the initial stages of pregnancy . Especially when the first trimester can be argued as the hardest on the mother.
SickFish said:
Well, things have certainly taken a bit of a nose dive.....
Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.
Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.
Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.
Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.
She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
All-in-all a very s
tty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap 
As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way
Re the bold bit, you might find this interesting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dcd22/the-... - Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.
Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.
Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.
Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.
She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
All-in-all a very s
tty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way
Red Devil said:
SickFish said:
Well, things have certainly taken a bit of a nose dive.....
Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.
Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.
Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.
Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.
She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
All-in-all a very stty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap
As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way
Re the bold bit, you might find this interesting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dcd22/the-... - Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.
Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.
Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.
Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.
She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
All-in-all a very s
tty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way
TwistingMyMelon said:
Lots of companies would have her out the door ASAP due to DPA, client confidentiality if they found work reports going to personal email accounts. You might argue it was for unfair dismissal evidence etc... Even if legally you can do it (I have no idea) you would have to go through the hassle of arguing the toss
I would be guided by the lawyers. But if it was part of my PIP I would view that it was part of my HR file and I'd be entitled to all of it anyway?
Anonymised to job number and pass/fail would not necessarily constitute a data breach or DPA, as far as I know.
But only a BV72 or similarly qualified could guide us accurately; the above is an unqualified opinion.
Vaud said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
Lots of companies would have her out the door ASAP due to DPA, client confidentiality if they found work reports going to personal email accounts. You might argue it was for unfair dismissal evidence etc... Even if legally you can do it (I have no idea) you would have to go through the hassle of arguing the toss
I would be guided by the lawyers. But if it was part of my PIP I would view that it was part of my HR file and I'd be entitled to all of it anyway?
Anonymised to job number and pass/fail would not necessarily constitute a data breach or DPA, as far as I know.
But only a BV72 or similarly qualified could guide us accurately; the above is an unqualified opinion.
SickFish said:
The job sheets were not emailed, just the PIP documentation as well as communication email trails.
Then I think she should be fine as they are her documents as much as the companies. You are entitled to your HR file and any communications relating to your role. If the company chooses to communicate them by email, you are entitled to retain a copy. Again, IANAL, but outside of the security services, I can't see that sending those to a personal email address would breach an IT policy. Be advised on that point by the lawyers you have sensibly retained, Sickfish, and not by us here (not even by me: I am not retained by you and don't have the full picture and docs). The main reason for having a lawyer is to obtain advice and representation, but a secondary reason is that the lawyer is insured against cocking things up. Dudes on the net aren't!
Breadvan72 said:
Be advised on that point by the lawyers you have sensibly retained, Sickfish, and not by us here (not even by me: I am not retained by you and don't have the full picture and docs). The main reason for having a lawyer is to obtain advice and representation, but a secondary reason is that the lawyer is insured against cocking things up. Dudes on the net aren't!
^^^^ indeed, point taken. However, it's always good to get a few perspectives and opinions, but ultimately decisions will always be ran past our legal repSickFish said:
Intrigued on the relevance....? (I haven't watched it all)
Adverse stress related effects on the pregnancy: see 04:30 onwards. This may well have influenced the amount awarded by the Tribunal. From an outside perspective it looks like they are trying to get rid of your o/h due to the pregnancy and are using dirty tricks to try and negate a potential unfair dismissal claim. The other point of similarity is the short time in post.
In my experience (from the employer's side of the fence) you have to be extremely careful about how you treat a pregnant female employee. Line managers are very capable of screwing things up with the upshot being HR is left picking up the pieces.
As others have said be guided by professional advice. I would certainly bring up the medical/health issue during any discussion with your solicitor.
Edited by Red Devil on Monday 11th August 23:15
littleredrooster said:
SickFish said:
ETA: She isn't as thick as I thought she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items' 
Not entirely bulletproof, unfortunately. A company I worked for in the recent past made a copy of EVERY incoming and outgoing email at the server. Deleting from an individual mailbox didn't delete the server copy; an electronic trail was always available. she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items' SickFish said:
I've told her to not do it again however and to just print things off and keep them in a file.
This is a better bet to avoid any accusations of questionable activity.Personal Mail / Google Drive type thing may be better alternatives if you need to upload copies of files for legal reason etc.
Update:
Mrs F has had her 'performance review' today (it was changed at the last moment).... She had managed to find a colleague who would agree to be present at todays meeting, then, at the time the meeting was to commence the HQ manager stated that this colleague could not be present, as she was to be made available to "answer the telephone" therefore Mrs F was forced into the meeting on her own. Present at the meeting was HQ mgr and her PA, also the company solicitor was supposed to be present (of which Mrs F was totally unaware) but could not make it and obviously Mrs F.
I have seen the notes from the meeting and points raised are totally unsubstantial and some are even an out-and-out lie. For example Mrs F was accused of never wearing a uniform, unless HQ mgr was due to be present in the branch, which is, of course, absolutely false. One thing that was also said is "I keep defending you, nobody else thinks you should be here." In my eyes this is absolutely unacceptable and has left Mrs F extremely disillusioned and fed up with being constantly victimised and feeling like there is a target on her back.
The result of the meeting is that her probation period will be extended to the 10th September, which I feel is a ploy on the companies behalf in order to give them further time to collate information/ evidence to show Mrs F in a bad light and ultimately bring about her dismissal.
We are going to discuss tonight but I think she will be tendering her notice and approach ACAS for early conciliation
(side note - am I right in thinking there is no cost in this?)
I am fed up with the Mrs not sleeping properly and being generally feeling like a piece of st, at a time in her life where she is meant to be on top of the world! 
Mrs F has had her 'performance review' today (it was changed at the last moment).... She had managed to find a colleague who would agree to be present at todays meeting, then, at the time the meeting was to commence the HQ manager stated that this colleague could not be present, as she was to be made available to "answer the telephone" therefore Mrs F was forced into the meeting on her own. Present at the meeting was HQ mgr and her PA, also the company solicitor was supposed to be present (of which Mrs F was totally unaware) but could not make it and obviously Mrs F.
I have seen the notes from the meeting and points raised are totally unsubstantial and some are even an out-and-out lie. For example Mrs F was accused of never wearing a uniform, unless HQ mgr was due to be present in the branch, which is, of course, absolutely false. One thing that was also said is "I keep defending you, nobody else thinks you should be here." In my eyes this is absolutely unacceptable and has left Mrs F extremely disillusioned and fed up with being constantly victimised and feeling like there is a target on her back.
The result of the meeting is that her probation period will be extended to the 10th September, which I feel is a ploy on the companies behalf in order to give them further time to collate information/ evidence to show Mrs F in a bad light and ultimately bring about her dismissal.
We are going to discuss tonight but I think she will be tendering her notice and approach ACAS for early conciliation
(side note - am I right in thinking there is no cost in this?)I am fed up with the Mrs not sleeping properly and being generally feeling like a piece of s
t, at a time in her life where she is meant to be on top of the world! Edited by SickFish on Wednesday 13th August 15:42
SickFish said:
Timsta said:
You may want to take out her name from the above post.
I read it 4 times!!!..... 4 times!!! and I STILL did it! Pah!Thanks for the pointer
Timsta said:
SickFish said:
Timsta said:
You may want to take out her name from the above post.
I read it 4 times!!!..... 4 times!!! and I STILL did it! Pah!Thanks for the pointer
I had to pop into her work last night, I was picking her up and she was working ~15 mins late, Mrs F introduced me to everyone except her boss.... her reasoning "Because you'll belt him"
N.B. I am neither a director, bald, goatee sporting maniac..... I just have a 'particular set of skills.....'
I jest... but you get my drift.
GarryDK said:
Timsta said:
No problem, mate. I would be livid that she wasn't allowed a colleague in with her and would have asked for it to be postponed.
ThisIts pure bullying. I hope it was noted that she was refused to have someone with her.
Not doubting anything you've said OP but I find it unbelievable that a company think they're possibly going to get away with treating your missus like this. I mean surely anyone with half a brain can see that stopping her colleague attending the meeting is not going to look very good when it all hits the fan, never mind the outright lies. How stupid can a company, and the individuals orchestrating all this, be? The mind boggles.
It sucks. It sounds really horrible and stressful. They are "bang out of line".
But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.
There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.
I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.
They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"
Is it worth it?
But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.
There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.
I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.
They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"
Is it worth it?
Centurion07 said:
Not doubting anything you've said OP but I find it unbelievable that a company think they're possibly going to get away with treating your missus like this. I mean surely anyone with half a brain can see that stopping her colleague attending the meeting is not going to look very good when it all hits the fan, never mind the outright lies. How stupid can a company, and the individuals orchestrating all this, be? The mind boggles.
It's ridiculous isn't it? The comment made, when the mrs announced being pregnant, makes a lot of sense now - "So.... when are you coming back?"..... WTF?!?scdan4 said:
It sucks. It sounds really horrible and stressful. They are "bang out of line".
But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.
There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.
I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.
They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"
Is it worth it?
It is something we have considered and after having legal advice we are going to sit on it over the weekend and have a good long hard think about it.But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.
There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.
I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.
They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"
Is it worth it?
It is interesting that you mention going on the sick.... after a bit of research it would appear that disciplinary action cannot be brought against someone who is off sick due to pregnancy. Trouble is, SSP is pants!
Initially there is not a great deal of stress involved as the first thing that would happen, should it go into a legal battle, is ACAS will talk to the company and try to agree an early reconciliation, basically "hush-money"
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