Constructive dismassal due to pregnancy??? Please help!

[SickFish]

SickFish said:

Breadvan72 said:

As the employer has lawyered up, I suggest you do also, OP. David Ludlow at Barlow Robbins would be my suggestion for this one. Don't sign any docs for the time being.

I think their solicitor also doubles as an HR bod so not sure what the angle is with regards to C.Cing him in but we certainly smell a rat.

Her hand has been forced with regards to the signing of the document, however, we have responded "with comments" refuting all blame (I have gone into a little more detail in reply to your email - thanks again for that)

ETA we will be contacting David Ludlow ASAP.

Just want to say a huge thanks to Gerard (Breadvan72), I discussed in length the matter with David Ludlow and we now have a plan of attack as well as knowing exactly where we stand.

Mrs Fish is now relatively comfortable at work, knowing the law is on her side so at least that stress has been alleviated. now it's just a waiting game to see her employers next move

[SickFish]

Well, things have certainly taken a bit of a nose dive.....

Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.

Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.

Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.

Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.

She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.

All-in-all a very stty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap

As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way

[SickFish]

Centurion07 said:

I hope you're keeping all those email reports and, hopefully, evidence to contradict them?

Of course- they are being immediately forwarded to a personal email address as well as being printed off (should they start to play dirty)

[SickFish]

It is also interesting to note that the other people these reports and subsequent bking emails are not on a PIP etc..... IMO that just strengthens our stance of 'unfavourable treatment'

[SickFish]

ikarl said:

Be careful.....getting sacked for sending confidential work information to your personal email address is a completely different kettle of fish!

IMHO that sounds like it could sit in the realms of gross misconduct. Hopefully BV will be along to tell me to shut up and that I'm wrong - not trying to be curt BV, I hope I'm wrong on this

Hmmmm that is a rather good point actually..... Thanks for the heads up!

I'll get the Mrs to cover her tracks, although, nothing 'confidential' has been sent it would be prudent to be whiter than white I think and give them no excuses.

ETA: She isn't as thick as I thought she deleted 'sent' items as soon as she forwarded them and then cleared the 'deleted items'

I've told her to not do it again however and to just print things off and keep them in a file.

Edited by SickFish on Monday 11th August 16:39

[SickFish]

Breadvan72 said:

Check the email policy. What are these reports? Do they contain information that is confidential? It may be better to send copies to your legal advisor, if you need to (NB IF you need to). Doing so on the basis that you are seeking to obtain advice and seek protection against unlawful conduct is very different to grabbing company info for some illegitimate purpose. Do not conduct any other correspondence with your solicitor via a work email address as you do not wish to waive privilege in your communications.

The reports have not been forwarded, it was purely a comms trail - no confidential information. The reports are merely an excel spread sheet with a list of 'jobs' and their status beside them. No names or confidential information whatsoever.

All correspondence with our legal advisor has been through a personal email address rather than a work email address; she is aware that her manager has the ability to read emails (whether he does or doesn't is another matter).

[SickFish]

Red Devil said:

SickFish said:

Well, things have certainly taken a bit of a nose dive.....

Since Friday, Mrs Fish has been receiving daily emailed reports with fictitious 'errors' on her internal reporting system, she has discussed this with another employee who is also involved in the reporting system and she too agrees that the report is totally false and does not understand where it originates from.

Also, which is of a greater concern for me, is that a HSE assessment was carried out on her role last Thursday. Detailed within the report was that her current workload is of a concern and that action is required. As of yet, no action has been taken, the results of the assessment have not even been acknowledged by her local line manager or his manager.

Mrs Fish has tried to raise her concerns with her local line manager, but this has fallen on deaf ears and he would appear to be fairly impotent due to fear of reprisal.

Mrs Fish has had a scheduled health assessment with a doctor this morning; who has said that she has a higher than normal blood pressure. The doctor attributed the stress of her current situation to her elevated BP, which concerns us both as our main priority is the health of the baby.

She is feeling quite distraught at the moment as she is definitely of the mind that she has a 'target on her back' as it were, and is feeling quite helpless. We discussed with a legal bod that she would 'ride it out' until her 'performance review' on the 14th..... hopefully giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.

All-in-all a very stty situation, this is supposed to be a happy time and Mrs Fish feels crap

As an aside, we have checked our household insurance and we have £100k of legal cover, which I hope is sufficient to take this all the way

Re the bold bit, you might find this interesting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dcd22/the-... -

Intrigued on the relevance....? (I haven't watched it all)

[SickFish]

Vaud said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

Lots of companies would have her out the door ASAP due to DPA, client confidentiality if they found work reports going to personal email accounts. You might argue it was for unfair dismissal evidence etc... Even if legally you can do it (I have no idea) you would have to go through the hassle of arguing the toss

I would be guided by the lawyers.

But if it was part of my PIP I would view that it was part of my HR file and I'd be entitled to all of it anyway?

Anonymised to job number and pass/fail would not necessarily constitute a data breach or DPA, as far as I know.

But only a BV72 or similarly qualified could guide us accurately; the above is an unqualified opinion.

The job sheets were not emailed, just the PIP documentation as well as communication email trails.

[SickFish]

Breadvan72 said:

Be advised on that point by the lawyers you have sensibly retained, Sickfish, and not by us here (not even by me: I am not retained by you and don't have the full picture and docs). The main reason for having a lawyer is to obtain advice and representation, but a secondary reason is that the lawyer is insured against cocking things up. Dudes on the net aren't!

^^^^ indeed, point taken. However, it's always good to get a few perspectives and opinions, but ultimately decisions will always be ran past our legal rep

[SickFish]

Update:

Mrs F has had her 'performance review' today (it was changed at the last moment).... She had managed to find a colleague who would agree to be present at todays meeting, then, at the time the meeting was to commence the HQ manager stated that this colleague could not be present, as she was to be made available to "answer the telephone" therefore Mrs F was forced into the meeting on her own. Present at the meeting was HQ mgr and her PA, also the company solicitor was supposed to be present (of which Mrs F was totally unaware) but could not make it and obviously Mrs F.

I have seen the notes from the meeting and points raised are totally unsubstantial and some are even an out-and-out lie. For example Mrs F was accused of never wearing a uniform, unless HQ mgr was due to be present in the branch, which is, of course, absolutely false. One thing that was also said is "I keep defending you, nobody else thinks you should be here." In my eyes this is absolutely unacceptable and has left Mrs F extremely disillusioned and fed up with being constantly victimised and feeling like there is a target on her back.

The result of the meeting is that her probation period will be extended to the 10th September, which I feel is a ploy on the companies behalf in order to give them further time to collate information/ evidence to show Mrs F in a bad light and ultimately bring about her dismissal.

We are going to discuss tonight but I think she will be tendering her notice and approach ACAS for early conciliation (side note - am I right in thinking there is no cost in this?)

I am fed up with the Mrs not sleeping properly and being generally feeling like a piece of st, at a time in her life where she is meant to be on top of the world!

Edited by SickFish on Wednesday 13th August 15:42

[SickFish]

Timsta said:

You may want to take out her name from the above post.

I read it 4 times!!!..... 4 times!!! and I STILL did it! Pah!

Thanks for the pointer

[SickFish]

Timsta said:

SickFish said:

Timsta said:

You may want to take out her name from the above post.

I read it 4 times!!!..... 4 times!!! and I STILL did it! Pah!

Thanks for the pointer

No problem, mate. I would be livid that she wasn't allowed a colleague in with her and would have asked for it to be postponed.

trust me I am absolutely incandescent!

I had to pop into her work last night, I was picking her up and she was working ~15 mins late, Mrs F introduced me to everyone except her boss.... her reasoning "Because you'll belt him"

N.B. I am neither a director, bald, goatee sporting maniac..... I just have a 'particular set of skills.....'

I jest... but you get my drift.

GarryDK said:

Timsta said:

No problem, mate. I would be livid that she wasn't allowed a colleague in with her and would have asked for it to be postponed.

This

Its pure bullying. I hope it was noted that she was refused to have someone with her.

Very much so

[SickFish]

Centurion07 said:

Not doubting anything you've said OP but I find it unbelievable that a company think they're possibly going to get away with treating your missus like this. I mean surely anyone with half a brain can see that stopping her colleague attending the meeting is not going to look very good when it all hits the fan, never mind the outright lies. How stupid can a company, and the individuals orchestrating all this, be? The mind boggles.

It's ridiculous isn't it? The comment made, when the mrs announced being pregnant, makes a lot of sense now - "So.... when are you coming back?"..... WTF?!?

scdan4 said:

It sucks. It sounds really horrible and stressful. They are "bang out of line".

But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.

There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.


I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.

They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"

Is it worth it?

It is something we have considered and after having legal advice we are going to sit on it over the weekend and have a good long hard think about it.

It is interesting that you mention going on the sick.... after a bit of research it would appear that disciplinary action cannot be brought against someone who is off sick due to pregnancy. Trouble is, SSP is pants!

Initially there is not a great deal of stress involved as the first thing that would happen, should it go into a legal battle, is ACAS will talk to the company and try to agree an early reconciliation, basically "hush-money"

[SickFish]

TroubledSoul said:

Centurion07 said:

Not doubting anything you've said OP but I find it unbelievable that a company think they're possibly going to get away with treating your missus like this. I mean surely anyone with half a brain can see that stopping her colleague attending the meeting is not going to look very good when it all hits the fan, never mind the outright lies. How stupid can a company, and the individuals orchestrating all this, be? The mind boggles.

I would not be surprised to find out that they thought her being on a probationary period protected them and absolved them of any accountability.

Hopefully they will soon find out just how wrong this approach is.

I wish you the best of luck with this OP. I had a very bad time with a former employer and ended up biting the bullet and getting out as my health was being affected.

There's not much worse than not wanting to go to bed at night because it brings tomorrow around sooner and not wanting to get up and have to go into work the next morning because you're so beaten down and fed up.....

These are my thoughts also.... Even more so now they have extended her probationary period by 2 weeks....

[SickFish]

Zeeky said:

SickFish said:

...
We are going to discuss tonight but I think she will be tendering her notice and approach ACAS for early conciliation (side note - am I right in thinking there is no cost in this?)

There is no cost and success depends on the employer cooperating. Also note that the role of ACAS is to get the potential claim settled, not to get you the best settlement. You can use legal representation in the process. In all events speak to your lawyer before handing in the notice.

agreed, spoke to our legal rep last night and we are sitting on it over the weekend to mull over

[SickFish]

Four Litre said:

scdan4 said:

It sucks. It sounds really horrible and stressful. They are "bang out of line".

But are you sure you want to win this one? . She's already had indications from the GP that this is effecting her badly.

There will be other jobs. You both have far more important things happening right now.


I'd be inclined to get signed off with a view of never going back. Fight the good fight via letter for a bit afterwards.

They are wrong, but... Is this a case of "don't let that idiot become part of the rest of your life?"

Is it worth it?

Its clear whatever happens that place isnt for her. They seem like a bunch of anchors.

Why not loose this battle and win the war. Surely the stress is getting to her and this has brought about long term sickness from stress...Friend had a simlar thing and ended up 11 months off on full pay and then a golden handshake.....

She wont get full pay, she would get SSP, we have decided we will revisit it over the weekend and come up with a POA, whether that is she hands in her notice and walks away or we go the legal route.

[SickFish]

V8 Fettler said:

SickFish said:

aka_kerrly said:

Just to throw another viewpoint out there, is the firm that the OP's partner works for particularly large or small.

For small businesses the costs of a new staff member plus training then having to fund maternity leave shortly after whilst also hiring another member of staff to cover for maternity leave and having to train/pay them is bloody expensive! If you consider that you can understand why a employer would be a bit pissed off by a new staff member springing "im pregnant " on them within a few weeks of starting.

I don't have the numbers to hand but it may well be cheaper to get sued for unfair dismissal than having to pay for two staff over 12 months plus having to deal with a situation where the original staff member wants to come back but only on part time!!

No, large national company involved in insurance.

To be perfectly honest, we didn't know she was pregnant when she started, we were told we couldn't have kids.....

Is this sorry saga being run from the UK head office? Or is it a local manager running away with his local power? The larger insurers generally have hidebound established procedures, which should be beneficial in this case if localism has over-reached itself.

No, it is being ran from UK HQ. Her local branch manager is an impotent coward with zero managerial skills....

[SickFish]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Just to check, is your basis of any claim is that she has been discriminated against due to pregnancy rather then her work is not to the standards the employer requires?

Yes.

When she first started her work heaped praise on her. Come the announcement of her pregnancy all attitudes change....

The basis of our 'claim' (if we even decide that is the route we want to pursue) would be that the (false) 'evidence of poor performance' that is being relied on by her employer is really a pretext for sex discrimination