£100 fine for not displaying tax disc.

£100 fine for not displaying tax disc.

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Discussion

mjh64

77 posts

145 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
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andyiley said:
The tax disc barely visible in the VIN slot in the windscreen is not classed as displaying a tax disc, the car was not displaying a current tax disc, build a bridge & get over it!
clapyes

Negative Creep

24,963 posts

227 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
mjh64 said:
andyiley said:
The tax disc barely visible in the VIN slot in the windscreen is not classed as displaying a tax disc, the car was not displaying a current tax disc, build a bridge & get over it!
clapyes
Do you feel £100 is a proportionate fine in this instance?

Mercury00

4,101 posts

156 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
Do you feel £100 is a proportionate fine in this instance?
Well it served its purpose, she wont do it again!

hondafanatic

4,969 posts

201 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
I had a tax disc slip out of view. Came back to the car and the ticket was a warning rather than a fine. That seemed reasonable.

Riley Blue

20,941 posts

226 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
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It's not rocket science to make sure a piece of paper is securely fixed to a sheet of glass. I would consider that photo a clear admission of guilt.

bigee

1,485 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
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Slightly off topic but, to show it can/does happen, I once was parked up looking at a job in a bay WITH a valid pay & display ticket.It was a very hot day. Came back to vehicle to see a 'warden' writing out a ticket,when inquiring why he said i did not have a ticket.....cut to the chase,it had fallen off screen onto the floor.Despite my showing him said ticket he proceeded to issue me a ticket with the usual line of "you'll have to write in"...as he left he blatantly told me that he warns people not to affix to windscreen in hot weather as they know the glue strip is not up to the job !! (despite the ticket clearly instructing you to fix to screen ) Obviously it was cancelled on appeal but just to show these things do happen.
I do not think the fine to the OP is reasonable at all.

4rephill

5,040 posts

178 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
bigee said:
Slightly off topic but, to show it can/does happen, I once was parked up looking at a job in a bay WITH a valid pay & display ticket.It was a very hot day. Came back to vehicle to see a 'warden' writing out a ticket,when inquiring why he said i did not have a ticket.....cut to the chase,it had fallen off screen onto the floor.Despite my showing him said ticket he proceeded to issue me a ticket with the usual line of "you'll have to write in"...as he left he blatantly told me that he warns people not to affix to windscreen in hot weather as they know the glue strip is not up to the job !! (despite the ticket clearly instructing you to fix to screen ) Obviously it was cancelled on appeal but just to show these things do happen.
Obviously?

Years ago I had the exact same thing happen to Me in one of the cities council car parks.

I'd bought the ticket, stuck it to the windscreen, went off shopping and came back to find a parking fine on the screen for failure to pay and display, with no sign of the parking ticket.

On opening the door, the ticket had dropped off the screen due to poor quality glue on the strip and landed in the drivers footwell.

I appealed the fine stating that I had actually paid and displayed but due to their poor quality glue, the ticket had fallen off.

Despite Me showing the evidence of the bought ticket, the fine was upheld as it was decreed that at the time the car was inspected, I had failed to display!

Since that day, I have always placed parking tickets somewhere on the dashboard where they cannot get moved or slip down the dashboard.


bigee said:
I do not think the fine to the OP is reasonable at all.
Why not? - It's a fine, a punishment for failing to adhere to a somewhat simple requirement of the Law. It's not supposed to be some minor inconvenience of having to give up a trivial amount of money like £10 or £20!

The idea of the punishment is to try to ensure that you do not commit the same offence again. If you make the fines too low, where's the incentive to ensure that the offence is not repeated?

In this case, I suspect the Tax disc will now be firmly adhered to the screen (until they're no longer required to be displayed), so the fine will have served its purpose effectively!



55palfers

5,901 posts

164 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
4rephill said:
The idea of the punishment is to try to ensure that you do not commit the same offence again. If you make the fines too low, where's the incentive to ensure that the offence is not repeated?
Our local Magistrates fined someone the princely sum of £50 the other week for assault! This does not stack up.


vonhosen

40,230 posts

217 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
55palfers said:
4rephill said:
The idea of the punishment is to try to ensure that you do not commit the same offence again. If you make the fines too low, where's the incentive to ensure that the offence is not repeated?
Our local Magistrates fined someone the princely sum of £50 the other week for assault! This does not stack up.
Was £50 a lot to them?

bigee

1,485 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
See your point Von,but,was £100 a lot or not to the OP ? Still seems excessive to me. Failure to display is an offence but really in this day and age when a simple check would show the vehicle was taxed a £100 fine stinks of moneygrabbing,but then theres no real surprise there.

bigee

1,485 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Why not? - It's a fine, a punishment for failing to adhere to a somewhat simple requirement of the Law. It's not supposed to be some minor inconvenience of having to give up a trivial amount of money like £10 or £20!

The idea of the punishment is to try to ensure that you do not commit the same offence again. If you make the fines too low, where's the incentive to ensure that the offence is not repeated?

In this case, I suspect the Tax disc will now be firmly adhered to the screen (until they're no longer required to be displayed), so the fine will have served its purpose effectively!
I said obviously because I could actually show the officer on the spot,i had a witness to the whole 'event', pictures at the time etc. Maybe I put my case better ?
I am all for people observing restrictions,parking etc but I expect those that are charged with doing so to play by the rules as well. I had bought a ticket,the ticket was 'faulty',as admitted by the attendant, why should I be fined for their incompetence ?


vonhosen

40,230 posts

217 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
bigee said:
See your point Von,but,was £100 a lot or not to the OP ? Still seems excessive to me. Failure to display is an offence but really in this day and age when a simple check would show the vehicle was taxed a £100 fine stinks of moneygrabbing,but then theres no real surprise there.
An FPN is that, a fixed penalty.
There wasn't a fixed penalty in the assault case so the court (having decided on a fine as disposal) can only issue a fine that can affordably be paid by the person convicted.
If the vehicle driver couldn't afford the £100 fixed penalty then by default a summons would be issued & it would go to court. The same, Re personal financial situation, would apply to the person convicted of failing to display.

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

188 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
bigee said:
See your point Von,but,was £100 a lot or not to the OP ? Still seems excessive to me. Failure to display is an offence but really in this day and age when a simple check would show the vehicle was taxed a £100 fine stinks of moneygrabbing,but then theres no real surprise there.
An FPN is that, a fixed penalty.
There wasn't a fixed penalty in the assault case so the court (having decided on a fine as disposal) can only issue a fine that can affordably be paid by the person convicted.
If the vehicle driver couldn't afford the £100 fixed penalty then by default a summons would be issued & it would go to court. The same, Re personal financial situation, would apply to the person convicted of failing to display.
Von, can you take a squint at this thread, view the video (it isn't me driving), and give the official answer please ?

I'd like your input, as I do sometimes drive like this, and I've seen a post or two in here (although without video), where they reckon they've been picked up by a patrol car, rather than the middle lane people.

Many thanks.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

vonhosen

40,230 posts

217 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Nigel Worc's said:
vonhosen said:
bigee said:
See your point Von,but,was £100 a lot or not to the OP ? Still seems excessive to me. Failure to display is an offence but really in this day and age when a simple check would show the vehicle was taxed a £100 fine stinks of moneygrabbing,but then theres no real surprise there.
An FPN is that, a fixed penalty.
There wasn't a fixed penalty in the assault case so the court (having decided on a fine as disposal) can only issue a fine that can affordably be paid by the person convicted.
If the vehicle driver couldn't afford the £100 fixed penalty then by default a summons would be issued & it would go to court. The same, Re personal financial situation, would apply to the person convicted of failing to display.
Von, can you take a squint at this thread, view the video (it isn't me driving), and give the official answer please ?

I'd like your input, as I do sometimes drive like this, and I've seen a post or two in here (although without video), where they reckon they've been picked up by a patrol car, rather than the middle lane people.

Many thanks.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If you want the official line it's in the Highway Code.

IMHO there are people in the middle lane not adhering to the contents of the highway code & the driver of the video car isn't either. As such either could be stopped by a patrol car & which is down to patrol car operator & how they view the individual circumstances.

Many in lane 2 could justifiably argue they are waiting to get into lane 3 in order to overtake the vehicle in front of them in lane 2, the undertaker doesn't have much of an argument open to them.



Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 2nd August 12:50

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

188 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
If you want the official line it's in the Highway Code.


Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 2nd August 12:50
No it isn't, it's ambiguous at best, hence the confusion from drivers.

I guess from your response the whole situation is open to a Police officers interpretation and discretion, and could only be sorted in court (like what is and isn't a car derived van) ?

y2blade

56,089 posts

215 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
I don't display either, haven't done so for years.


Mermaid

21,492 posts

171 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
y2blade said:
I don't display either, haven't done so for years.
Same here - enjoy the full visibility of the screen - but even a most ardent jobsworth should have taken a view in view of the impending rules change and no damage to anyone.

vonhosen

40,230 posts

217 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Nigel Worc's said:
vonhosen said:
If you want the official line it's in the Highway Code.


Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 2nd August 12:50
No it isn't, it's ambiguous at best, hence the confusion from drivers.

I guess from your response the whole situation is open to a Police officers interpretation and discretion, and could only be sorted in court (like what is and isn't a car derived van) ?
You might think it's ambiguous, but it's the official line.

The highway code's position is don't pass on the left, save some special circumstances which it gives, that video wasn't showing one of those special circumstances.

InitialDave

11,877 posts

119 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Same here - enjoy the full visibility of the screen - but even a most ardent jobsworth should have taken a view in view of the impending rules change and no damage to anyone.
How small is your screen?!?

Put me in the "letter of the law says bang to rights, but a dick move for something that was likely not deliberate and a database check would have confirmed the tax situation" boat.

An "I could do you, but won't this time, so fix it and be more careful in future" note would have been appropriate.

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

188 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
Nigel Worc's said:
vonhosen said:
If you want the official line it's in the Highway Code.


Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 2nd August 12:50
No it isn't, it's ambiguous at best, hence the confusion from drivers.

I guess from your response the whole situation is open to a Police officers interpretation and discretion, and could only be sorted in court (like what is and isn't a car derived van) ?
You might think it's ambiguous, but it's the official line.

The highway code's position is don't pass on the left, save some special circumstances which it gives, that video wasn't showing one of those special circumstances.
My take, and we're on the wrong thread here, my apologies to the op of this one, is the driver in this clip is doing nothing wrong.

The traffic in his lane, him, (his lane is clear), is moving faster than the traffic to the right.

As long as he doesn't exceed the speed limit, then what possible offence is he committing ?

The vehicles in lane two however are failing to keep left unless overtaking, so they are causing a rolling road block (without even being lorries !).

It isn't an offence to pass on the left in his situation, in my understanding.