Police Scotland - Officers routinely carrying guns.

Police Scotland - Officers routinely carrying guns.

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GC8

19,910 posts

190 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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Elroy Blue said:
Detached? I don't think he's ever been there.

I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Isnt the issue that theyre openly carrying sidearms when theyre doing these everyday traffic policing tasks, when before their weapons were secured in a lock box in the vehicle?

I was stopped by an ARV a couple of weeks ago on the way home from work (rear bulb had failed en-route, which I replaced at the scene). Obviously an ARV as the back seat was blocked by a gun safe. With all the weapons stowed away it didn't bother me in the slightest - had the observer been sat with a self loading pistol at his hip and an assault rifle on his lap then Id have been far less happy about it.

Elroy Blue

8,688 posts

192 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Glock has been overtly carried for years.

mph1977

12,467 posts

168 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Elroy Blue said:
Glock has been overtly carried for years.
i'm trying to think of English force where ARV officers donl;t openly carry their sidearms at all times when on duty ...

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Elroy Blue said:
Detached? I don't think he's ever been there.

I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Good for you -so YOUR AFV would have been first call for the punch up would it? Maybe if it was the ONLY resource available Ive never said they wouldnt deal, and certainly dont have a problem with them being out and about dealing with routine jobs so stop nit picking. My forces AFO's have also dealt with everything for years and probably continue to do so.



Edited by Bigends on Thursday 5th March 22:44

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Dibble said:
Bigends said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
So if an assault is reported, Armed officers are 5 minutes away and unarmed officers 10 minutes away, Who should be sent to the call ?
Generally the unarmed unit would be assigned and the Afv backs up if available
You really, really are detached from the current reality of policing. Get a grip, FFS.
Go on then..put me right

drainbrain

5,637 posts

111 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/re...


Stephen House v People of Scotland part xxxv

AndrewEH1

4,917 posts

153 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/re...


Stephen House v People of Scotland part xxxv
Good.

The papers and MSPs are not helping.

drainbrain

5,637 posts

111 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
AndrewEH1 said:
Good.

The papers and MSPs are not helping.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/police-scotland-bans-pigs-from-facebook-page-1-3710080

laugh

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/re...


Stephen House v People of Scotland part xxxv
All those "routine" incidents and no-one got shot.


Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Just had a chat with one of our FCR supervisors i'm sat about ten feet from.
Ours (all 2 of them) are generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.

Edited by Bigends on Friday 6th March 17:41

AndrewEH1

4,917 posts

153 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Just had a chat with one of our FCR supervisors i'm sat about ten feet from.
Ours (all 2 of them) were generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.
Is this in Scotland? Two teams or just two guys? Either way not many, hope they don't have to cover too large an area!

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
AndrewEH1 said:
Is this in Scotland? Two teams or just two guys? Either way not many, hope they don't have to cover too large an area!
Two cars for our force area

Mr Trophy

6,808 posts

203 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Bigends said:
AndrewEH1 said:
Is this in Scotland? Two teams or just two guys? Either way not many, hope they don't have to cover too large an area!
Two cars for our force area
Are you armed & Police Scotland?

jaf01uk

1,943 posts

196 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
La Liga said:
drainbrain said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/re...


Stephen House v People of Scotland part xxxv
All those "routine" incidents and no-one got shot.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is the public perception of these incidents, up till now we know there have been armed cops going about but nobody ever saw them openly carrying guns in public (usually historically in this area in Traffic cars locked in safe in the boot, if they were called to an incident they would "arm up" and go, took a minute or so at most) they certainly didn't stand in the queue at McDonalds waiting for their big mac (like they did in Inverness which kicked off the debate) In our area we probably have a larger proportion of armed cops due to Balmoral and it is this openly carrying guns that some people have a problem with, makes it seem like we have gone from a (largely) unarmed police service to an armed one, we can argue till the cows come home regards whether this is a good idea or not but it is not the Chief Constables decision on his own to allow routine patrols carrying guns and his arrogance on the subject is why the politicians have been getting riled

jith

2,752 posts

215 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
I can sympathise with any officer attending an incident where they are suddenly confronted with someone armed with a gun when they are not. The problem in dealing with this is the aspect of how villains would react to knowing every police officer is carrying a firearm. Would it act as a deterrent or have the reverse effect and escalate shoot-outs in the streets, just as is the case in the States?

Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.

I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.

The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.

J


Elroy Blue

8,688 posts

192 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
jaf01uk said:
but it is not the Chief Constables decision on his own to allow routine patrols carrying guns and his arrogance on the subject is why the politicians have been getting riled
Armed Officers have been overtly carrying sidearms for years.

This was a cheap. opportunistic attempt to slur the Police by Politicians and Journalists. The latest spat is because Armed Officers have continued to stop drink drivers and deal with other spontaneous events. What are they supposed to do, ignore the pissed up driver in front of them.

It's pathetic. Truly pathetic.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

188 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
AndrewEH1 said:
GC8 said:
Hearing people say that theyre 'all for it' makes me shudder. Do you think that the country will in some way be improved by this? What on earth is going around in your head?
Do you know the full details about this 'issue' in Scotland?

There hasn't been a change in policy for a number of years. This all came around due to one photo on the front page of a Scottish newspaper of armed officers helping regular officers to deal with drunk people on a weekend night.

As far as I can remember there hasn't been a case of a Scottish police officer shooting someone who didn't need to be shot in a long, long time let alone them shooting anyone.

Armed officers aren't an issue.

Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 5th March 16:41
Indeed. Very few people are ever shot by the UK Police.

jith

2,752 posts

215 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
AndrewEH1 said:
GC8 said:
Hearing people say that theyre 'all for it' makes me shudder. Do you think that the country will in some way be improved by this? What on earth is going around in your head?
Do you know the full details about this 'issue' in Scotland?

There hasn't been a change in policy for a number of years. This all came around due to one photo on the front page of a Scottish newspaper of armed officers helping regular officers to deal with drunk people on a weekend night.

As far as I can remember there hasn't been a case of a Scottish police officer shooting someone who didn't need to be shot in a long, long time let alone them shooting anyone.

Armed officers aren't an issue.

Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 5th March 16:41
Indeed. Very few people are ever shot by the UK Police.
Yes, but they're not all routinely armed. That is the whole issue. What would happen if every police officer carried a visible firearm?

J

Devil2575

13,400 posts

188 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
La Liga said:
Imagine two drunken idiots start to attack you / a friend / family member for no reason. A third party calls the police to report it. An armed resource (a double-crewed Armed Response Vehicle) is 1 minute away, and unarmed resource is 10 minutes away.

A perfectly probable scenario.

Are people saying they want the ARV to ignore them? That they should only deploy to armed / threat to life incidents (this isn't a threat to life incident)? What if they're closer? Should they drive off?
They aren't saying anything other than having an illogical emotional response to a situation without thinking it through rationally. The people highlighting this stuff in the first place want people to have emotional responses because it helps to further their agenda.

The reality is that no one in that situation would say that they'd rather be atacked for a further 9 minutes so that unarmed Police could attend.

TheBear

1,940 posts

246 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
jith said:
I can sympathise with any officer attending an incident where they are suddenly confronted with someone armed with a gun when they are not. The problem in dealing with this is the aspect of how villains would react to knowing every police officer is carrying a firearm. Would it act as a deterrent or have the reverse effect and escalate shoot-outs in the streets, just as is the case in the States?

Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.

I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.

The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.

J
Someone, several years ago, who wasn't armed, would definitely have pulled a gun on you, which he wasn't carrying, at the side of the road and god knows what would have happened?

Wow.

What were your injuries?