Police Scotland - Officers routinely carrying guns.
Discussion
Elroy Blue said:
Detached? I don't think he's ever been there.
I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Isnt the issue that theyre openly carrying sidearms when theyre doing these everyday traffic policing tasks, when before their weapons were secured in a lock box in the vehicle?I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
I was stopped by an ARV a couple of weeks ago on the way home from work (rear bulb had failed en-route, which I replaced at the scene). Obviously an ARV as the back seat was blocked by a gun safe. With all the weapons stowed away it didn't bother me in the slightest - had the observer been sat with a self loading pistol at his hip and an assault rifle on his lap then Id have been far less happy about it.
Elroy Blue said:
Detached? I don't think he's ever been there.
I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Good for you -so YOUR AFV would have been first call for the punch up would it? Maybe if it was the ONLY resource available Ive never said they wouldnt deal, and certainly dont have a problem with them being out and about dealing with routine jobs so stop nit picking. My forces AFO's have also dealt with everything for years and probably continue to do so. I was an AFO for many years. I dealt with everything from RTCs to domestics and drink drivers. Current AFOs have been doing the same for years. It's a complete and utter non story, Some of the comments I've seen are bordering on the hysterical. Some journalists and Politicians really, really need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Edited by Bigends on Thursday 5th March 22:44
Dibble said:
Bigends said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
So if an assault is reported, Armed officers are 5 minutes away and unarmed officers 10 minutes away, Who should be sent to the call ?
Generally the unarmed unit would be assigned and the Afv backs up if available drainbrain said:
Good.The papers and MSPs are not helping.
drainbrain said:
All those "routine" incidents and no-one got shot. Just had a chat with one of our FCR supervisors i'm sat about ten feet from.
Ours (all 2 of them) are generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.
Ours (all 2 of them) are generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.
Edited by Bigends on Friday 6th March 17:41
Bigends said:
Just had a chat with one of our FCR supervisors i'm sat about ten feet from.
Ours (all 2 of them) were generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.
Is this in Scotland? Two teams or just two guys? Either way not many, hope they don't have to cover too large an area!Ours (all 2 of them) were generally only assigned as a last resort and not as a matter of routine - and then nine times out of ten would try and wriggle out of dealing.
La Liga said:
drainbrain said:
All those "routine" incidents and no-one got shot. I can sympathise with any officer attending an incident where they are suddenly confronted with someone armed with a gun when they are not. The problem in dealing with this is the aspect of how villains would react to knowing every police officer is carrying a firearm. Would it act as a deterrent or have the reverse effect and escalate shoot-outs in the streets, just as is the case in the States?
Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.
I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.
The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.
J
Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.
I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.
The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.
J
jaf01uk said:
but it is not the Chief Constables decision on his own to allow routine patrols carrying guns and his arrogance on the subject is why the politicians have been getting riled
Armed Officers have been overtly carrying sidearms for years.This was a cheap. opportunistic attempt to slur the Police by Politicians and Journalists. The latest spat is because Armed Officers have continued to stop drink drivers and deal with other spontaneous events. What are they supposed to do, ignore the pissed up driver in front of them.
It's pathetic. Truly pathetic.
AndrewEH1 said:
GC8 said:
Hearing people say that theyre 'all for it' makes me shudder. Do you think that the country will in some way be improved by this? What on earth is going around in your head?
Do you know the full details about this 'issue' in Scotland?There hasn't been a change in policy for a number of years. This all came around due to one photo on the front page of a Scottish newspaper of armed officers helping regular officers to deal with drunk people on a weekend night.
As far as I can remember there hasn't been a case of a Scottish police officer shooting someone who didn't need to be shot in a long, long time let alone them shooting anyone.
Armed officers aren't an issue.
Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 5th March 16:41
Devil2575 said:
AndrewEH1 said:
GC8 said:
Hearing people say that theyre 'all for it' makes me shudder. Do you think that the country will in some way be improved by this? What on earth is going around in your head?
Do you know the full details about this 'issue' in Scotland?There hasn't been a change in policy for a number of years. This all came around due to one photo on the front page of a Scottish newspaper of armed officers helping regular officers to deal with drunk people on a weekend night.
As far as I can remember there hasn't been a case of a Scottish police officer shooting someone who didn't need to be shot in a long, long time let alone them shooting anyone.
Armed officers aren't an issue.
Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 5th March 16:41
J
La Liga said:
Imagine two drunken idiots start to attack you / a friend / family member for no reason. A third party calls the police to report it. An armed resource (a double-crewed Armed Response Vehicle) is 1 minute away, and unarmed resource is 10 minutes away.
A perfectly probable scenario.
Are people saying they want the ARV to ignore them? That they should only deploy to armed / threat to life incidents (this isn't a threat to life incident)? What if they're closer? Should they drive off?
They aren't saying anything other than having an illogical emotional response to a situation without thinking it through rationally. The people highlighting this stuff in the first place want people to have emotional responses because it helps to further their agenda.A perfectly probable scenario.
Are people saying they want the ARV to ignore them? That they should only deploy to armed / threat to life incidents (this isn't a threat to life incident)? What if they're closer? Should they drive off?
The reality is that no one in that situation would say that they'd rather be atacked for a further 9 minutes so that unarmed Police could attend.
jith said:
I can sympathise with any officer attending an incident where they are suddenly confronted with someone armed with a gun when they are not. The problem in dealing with this is the aspect of how villains would react to knowing every police officer is carrying a firearm. Would it act as a deterrent or have the reverse effect and escalate shoot-outs in the streets, just as is the case in the States?
Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.
I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.
The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.
J
Someone, several years ago, who wasn't armed, would definitely have pulled a gun on you, which he wasn't carrying, at the side of the road and god knows what would have happened? Personally the other doubt I have over this emanates from a desperately awful experience I had with a traffic cop on Loch Lomond side several years ago. Without going into great detail this resulted in a complaint to the CCs office and a second complaint to the Fiscal after he produced a statement that was so totally out of order it was clearly false.
I have no doubt that, had he been armed he would have pulled a gun on me at the scene and god knows what would have happened then. My crime? I swerved across a double white line to avoid an idiot in a Land Rover with partially inflated tyres towing a badly loaded trailer with an unsecure load.
The problem with guns and out of control tempers is that it is so easy to kill someone, just the press of a trigger and it's all over. We have to think very, very seriously about that.
J
Wow.
What were your injuries?
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