Anyone have DPA knowledge?
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Eleven said:
But whatever one's public profile is, it needs to be the decision of the individual and not parasites who trade in peddling personal data
And, in the situation we're discussing here, it is.In this case, it was the individual's decision to make various employment/business decisions which included a legal requirement to put his name and address into the public domain - whether he understood that at the time or not.
Jon1967x said:
the issue appears to be a company lifting information from one site where it was available for a specific purpose
Except it isn't. Director details are public domain information. They can be used for whatever purpose. Once information is in the public domain, it is public and can be re-used for any purpose including commercial.If you don't believe me on this, will you believe Companies House?
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/faq/...
Jon1967x said:
not least the right to be forgotten.
Apart from being a brain-meltingly stupid attempt to shut barn doors by misunderstanding - completely - the way in which the internet works, that's not a data protection legislation issue anyway.TooMany2cvs said:
Jon1967x said:
the issue appears to be a company lifting information from one site where it was available for a specific purpose
Except it isn't. Director details are public domain information. They can be used for whatever purpose. Once information is in the public domain, it is public and can be re-used for any purpose including commercial.If you don't believe me on this, will you believe Companies House?
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/faq/...
Jon1967x said:
not least the right to be forgotten.
Apart from being a brain-meltingly stupid attempt to shut barn doors by misunderstanding - completely - the way in which the internet works, that's not a data protection legislation issue anyway.https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/the-data-protec...
SPI in particular is tightly protected but even PI has to be respected.
Things on the internet do not become free for all and devoid of any legislation, copyright or control. Google is frequently in court over such matters including indexing newspaper content
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_o...
Talk about getting hot under the collar for nothing. If a nutter wanted to find you, they can employ any number of routes without being reliant on websites reproducing publicly listed companies house information.
One of the responsibilities of being s director of a ltd company is that a forwarding address must be provided and this information is placed into the public domain. I fail to see the big deal if this information, which is already publicly available, is further distributed.
One of the responsibilities of being s director of a ltd company is that a forwarding address must be provided and this information is placed into the public domain. I fail to see the big deal if this information, which is already publicly available, is further distributed.
I found my details on a website, I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror and chanted data protection act 7 times, I came back and it was still on the website.
But it's my personal data! the magic shield of the data protection act should protect me against anyone doing anything I don't like with it
Why isn't it working???
But it's my personal data! the magic shield of the data protection act should protect me against anyone doing anything I don't like with it
Why isn't it working???
One of the many reasons for deploring the mostly pointless DPA is that it has given people the delusion that their name and address are some sort of secret or even a form of property. What are we? Ancient tribespeople who believe that if someone knows our name he has magical power over us?
BTW, not for the first time I wonder what happened to Streaky, who used to be our resident DPA wonk. I had the impression that he was not a young man, and hope that he merely got bored with PH (a very good plan) and that nothing worse befell him.
BTW, not for the first time I wonder what happened to Streaky, who used to be our resident DPA wonk. I had the impression that he was not a young man, and hope that he merely got bored with PH (a very good plan) and that nothing worse befell him.
Breadvan72 said:
One of the many reasons for deploring the mostly pointless DPA is that it has given people the delusion that their name and address are some sort of secret or even a form of property. What are we? Ancient tribespeople who believe that if someone knows our name he has magical power over us?
This appears to be another of your "it doesn't bother me, therefore it shouldn't bother everyone else" lines of thought. We had a similar conversation about cash some time ago. You didn't understand why people use cash outside of being, in your words, "A wannabe Arthur Dailey". Yet a great many people and businesses would not be able to operate without it.
YOU may not be bothered about your personal details being all over the Internet. But I am. I also have experience to suggest that my concerns are valid. I accept of course that if someone really wanted to find me they could, but I don't want to make it any easier than necessary.
I also have reason to believe that my address simply not being available on search engines is a barrier to access that would filter out most of the people I don't want to hear from.
What are you talking about? You appear to be mistaking me for someone else who has pissed you off, but as it appears that everything and everyone pisses you off that is perhaps not surprising.
Why be bothered about something that is nothing? You have no principled basis for objecting to people knowing your name and address. You object because because, and even you recognise that the objection is futile anyway.
Why be bothered about something that is nothing? You have no principled basis for objecting to people knowing your name and address. You object because because, and even you recognise that the objection is futile anyway.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th August 08:09
Breadvan72 said:
What are you talking about? You appear to be mistaking me for someone else who has pissed you off, but as it appears that everything and everyone pisses you off that is perhaps not surprising.
No, it was definitely you. But you didn't piss me off at all, nor have you this time. I was merely pointing out that sometimes your comments appear a little, "Let them eat cake".
To flesh things out for you a little: I run a business in one of the country's poorer cities and have some quite colourful customers who unfortunately it is sometimes necessary to upset. They are the sort of people who would Google my address and act upon the information. It has happened before and could do again. I honestly doubt that many of these people would have the nous to seek further than a search engine though. That said, one once tried to trace me via Whois.
I was alerted to my address being available too easily on one occasion when a debt collector turned up at MY house because they thought I might know where one of my customers had moved to! It was a brief conversation and they went away swiftly, but I'd have preferred not to see them at all.
Eleven said:
YOU may not be bothered about your personal details being all over the Internet. But I am.
Yet you then chose* to make a career decision that inherently and unavoidably put that information into the public domain.Now you're complaining about that.
- - Yes, chose. Nobody ever _forced_ anybody to be a director of a limited company.
My expectation is that the DPA will die over time simply because many of the expectations of it are impractical, not least because it doesn't exist in other parts of the world. In the USA there is an interpretation of the first amendment that says everyone has a right to know other people's personal data - and it is the prevalent interpretation.
So there, and in most other parts of the world, there is no understanding why someone else shouldn't have access to a lot of your personal data.
Here under the DPA it is mixed because the DPA itself leaves almost everything to the interpretation of the ICO. Its a vague Act, it talks about principles but it doesn't say anything much directly and the punishment for a breach is derisory.
None of which is a great help to the OP, except in that an expectation that the information will be protected is perhaps more dangerous than one where it is not. At least under the latter regime you know what is at risk if you reveal information.
So there, and in most other parts of the world, there is no understanding why someone else shouldn't have access to a lot of your personal data.
Here under the DPA it is mixed because the DPA itself leaves almost everything to the interpretation of the ICO. Its a vague Act, it talks about principles but it doesn't say anything much directly and the punishment for a breach is derisory.
None of which is a great help to the OP, except in that an expectation that the information will be protected is perhaps more dangerous than one where it is not. At least under the latter regime you know what is at risk if you reveal information.
TooMany2cvs said:
Eleven said:
YOU may not be bothered about your personal details being all over the Internet. But I am.
Yet you then chose* to make a career decision that inherently and unavoidably put that information into the public domain.Now you're complaining about that.
- - Yes, chose. Nobody ever _forced_ anybody to be a director of a limited company.
There are times when if you're going to be in business you need limited liability, which most often is via a limited company. The rules have changed but once upon a time the home addresses of directors had to be provided and were made available via a paid-for search at Companies House. There MAY have been ways around it but if there were neither I nor my accountant knew about it. Nor it would seem did the directors of some pretty big businesses (banks for example) because they too have / had their home addresses available for the price of a search.
Now of course I could have just not gone into business to avoid providing my address. But that would have been ridiculous. I would have been denying economic progress for the sake of avoiding a smallish risk. Furthermore, as I point out above, the information not being free and returned by a search engine provided a barrier to access. My concern is that the barrier has now been removed and if you knew my real name you could find my home address in seconds.
The risk remains small, but having my address out there is still a risk and I'd prefer it wasn't. So I am setting about putting that right.
Eleven said:
You keep saying this and it's essentially wrong.
No, it really isn't.Eleven said:
There are times when if you're going to be in business
See? THAT "If", right there, that's the one I'm talking about. That was a _choice_. You _chose_ to "be in business", rather than work for somebody else. Every choice comes with compromises. You chose that set, whether you fully understood the consequences or not.TooMany2cvs said:
Eleven said:
You keep saying this and it's essentially wrong.
No, it really isn't.Eleven said:
There are times when if you're going to be in business
See? THAT "If", right there, that's the one I'm talking about. That was a _choice_. You _chose_ to "be in business", rather than work for somebody else. Every choice comes with compromises. You chose that set, whether you fully understood the consequences or not.Eleven said:
I fully understood the risk at the time and made a decision. Do you think I should have anticipated that the situation and risk would change in this way?
It hasn't changed. The information went into the public domain. It's still in the public domain.The last thing that changed (until the very recent ability to register a service address) is that the Internet arrived, about 15-20 years ago.
TooMany2cvs said:
Eleven said:
I fully understood the risk at the time and made a decision. Do you think I should have anticipated that the situation and risk would change in this way?
It hasn't changed. The information went into the public domain. It's still in the public domain.Eleven said:
Until very recently it was necessary to pay to obtain the information, it wasn't immediately available from a search.
<surprised>I'm pretty damn sure it was free about ten years ago, and I can't find anything about removal of any charge. Anybody able to confirm or deny that?
TooMany2cvs said:
<surprised>
I'm pretty damn sure it was free about ten years ago, and I can't find anything about removal of any charge. Anybody able to confirm or deny that?
Are you by any chance 43 years old? Did the house over the road sell for £185k in January by any chance? Took 2 mins to find that if I'm right, and whats worse is if I'm wrong and its another Adrian Chapman then it would be an unfortunate case of mistake identity with people jumping to all kinds of wrong conclusions (thats how easy it is which is why it matters).I'm pretty damn sure it was free about ten years ago, and I can't find anything about removal of any charge. Anybody able to confirm or deny that?
I've refrained from posting your address, your date of birth, and the other information I found along the way to protect your privacy, the above will mean something to you but mean nothing to others
Edited by Jon1967x on Monday 18th August 19:14
Jon1967x said:
TooMany2cvs said:
<surprised>
I'm pretty damn sure it was free about ten years ago, and I can't find anything about removal of any charge. Anybody able to confirm or deny that?
Are you by any chance 43 years old? Did the house over the road sell for £185k in January by any chance? Took 2 mins to find that if I'm right, and whats worse is if I'm wrong and its another Adrian Chapman then it would be an unfortunate case of mistake identity with people jumping to all kinds of wrong conclusions (thats how easy it is which is why it matters).I'm pretty damn sure it was free about ten years ago, and I can't find anything about removal of any charge. Anybody able to confirm or deny that?
I've refrained from posting your address, your date of birth, and the other information I found along the way to protect your privacy, the above will mean something to you but mean nothing to others
Edited by Jon1967x on Monday 18th August 19:14
I think every individual in the UK needs to be aware that personal information can be all to easily used improperly. Financial gain being one such use. I think it is sensible to limit your risks.
Companies House is currently struggling with unlawful and fraudulent wrongdoings with scammers altering Directors appointments, Registered office changes etc with the intention of defrauding the company. I think they are doing their best. But the information game has changed and ignorance of the effects is no defence to the individuals attacked. I urge every businessman to be aware of the inherent risks that such public listings can all too easily lead to serious difficulties and take steps to protect themselves.
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