Speeding - Sometimes safe but not according to Plod....
Discussion
Jon1967x said:
It doesn't really matter, the OP is looking for some fantastically complicated system where the road, time of day, weather, car, drivers ability, other toad users and so on are all magically calculated to determine a suitable speed limit. I think we're a long way from that ever being the case.
Indeed. Easy to measure and prosecute = good law, is that the acid test?And involving amphibians to complicate things even more, just won't happen
Jon1967x said:
It doesn't really matter, the OP is looking for some fantastically complicated system where the road, time of day, weather, car, drivers ability, other toad users and so on are all magically calculated to determine a suitable speed limit. I think we're a long way from that ever being the case.
Not necessarily, it can just be a case of the degree and type of enforcement. For example, if the road is frequented by cyclists over the weekend but drivers don't encounter them during the week, it would be better for the police to set up their speed traps at the weekend if they want to protect the cyclists rather than setting them up during the week under the guise of protecting cyclists who aren't there when the drivers getting booked will most likely drive along the road more slowly when there are cyclists on it.Relevant measures also need to be taken to deal with safety issues. Roads near where I live, and many other roads around the country, have had their speed limits cut in response to high accident rates. A lot of those people having the accidents were driving cars or riding motorbikes well in excess of the original speed limits and many were drunk, high on drugs or somehow distracted. After a recent speed limit cut near me there were two fatal accidents only days later. One was a car full of drunk women hitting the kerb and turning the car over in the middle of the night. In the other case the car hit a bridge wall at 90mph in a 30mph limit that was a 40mph. It also happened in the middle of the night. The passenger who survived said the driver was already full of drink and drugs and was lighting a spliff, searching for his lighter in his door pocket, when he crashed. He fell out of the car when it span round and the door came open. Not long after that a work colleague of mine was caught by a camera van on the same stretch on a Tuesday afternoon doing 38mph. That wasn't dealing with the actual problems that are leading to deaths on the road.
This particular case makes a mockery of the whole speed thing. From Glencoe village to the straight before the descent into Tyndrum is and always has been a fast road. Bit narrow and that's where the summer problems come in as the southern tourists used to wide roads panic and slow right down ,and follow the southern tradition of forming a queue. Get three of them together and try an overtake - the gaps close up and it soon becomes apparent that when you catch up with one of these 35-40 MPH convoys, it's advisable to pass the lot ,and preferably with a decent overtaking speed margin . None of them seem capable ,or willing to overtake, and I'd suspect lack the knowledge on how to . Perhaps some of the unmarked cars might be better employed on safety grounds pulling over queues of vehicles and explain the need for correct spacing and courtesy when someone attempts to pass. but ,hey- there's no profit in that and in modern Britain anything that doesn't show a profit in road safety work is ignored.
Me- I've driven this road in all weathers and in all manner of vehicles. I've driven it an ancient Wolseley 1500 pre limit days at well over the current limit with no problems, weather dry, decent tyres (if cross-ply and brakes drum all round).
Me- I've driven this road in all weathers and in all manner of vehicles. I've driven it an ancient Wolseley 1500 pre limit days at well over the current limit with no problems, weather dry, decent tyres (if cross-ply and brakes drum all round).
There are many equally valid examples of proof that speed limits and particularly enforcement have little if nothing to do with road safety. There is such a profitable business case that folks have to trot out the safety thing hoping there are enough dumb people to believe it. There are plenty.
The funniest example is often shown on the TV and indeed in some cases we have witnessed first hand. Copper tools along at 120, 130 mph to catch someone else who was only doing 90 or 100 so they can write them up for 'dangerous' speeding.
Yet dumb people think it's ok because they're told only a superhuman trained in "how to work the throttle into three figures" can do this. Of course if enough people drove in Germany or even explored life over 90mph anywhere and discovered how uneventful it can be, the scam would be up.
The funniest example is often shown on the TV and indeed in some cases we have witnessed first hand. Copper tools along at 120, 130 mph to catch someone else who was only doing 90 or 100 so they can write them up for 'dangerous' speeding.
Yet dumb people think it's ok because they're told only a superhuman trained in "how to work the throttle into three figures" can do this. Of course if enough people drove in Germany or even explored life over 90mph anywhere and discovered how uneventful it can be, the scam would be up.
supermono said:
There are many equally valid examples of proof that speed limits and particularly enforcement have little if nothing to do with road safety. Yet dumb people think it's ok because they're told only a superhuman trained in "how to work the throttle into three figures" can do this. Of course if enough people drove in Germany or even explored life over 90mph anywhere and discovered how uneventful it can be, the scam would be up.
By coincidence with your musings I ventured onto You Tube last night and was watching the Russian carnage on the road dash cams, lots of them looked like at speeds of over 90mph life got very eventful, bits of bodies and "exploded" cars everywhere.I drove to work no faster than 55mph this morning safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't cause myself or some other innocent driver to be dismembered in an instant.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
a few percent of those drivers who aren't emergency drivers for work / volunteering ... ( in many volunteering settings where meergency driving takes place only a small proprtion of volunteers are ever in the position where they could consider applying for the course - having had to pass through a variety of Job related competency hoops to get to the practitioner / manager level required)anonymous said:
[redacted]
As one person posted, because he used to do it in a car with cross ply tyres and drum brakes its safe for all. Bit like drink driving is fine if you don't have an accident. (I'm being sarcastic for those in doubt).The stupid thing is, I have been known to stray the wrong side of the speed limit, but I do it when I believe it safe, and if I get caught I'll take it like a man.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Actually looking at the accident figures (which by the way our obsession with speed enforcement have basically stalled despite improvements in cars and medical advances) our drivers aren't too bad.But I guess by telling everyone they're all idiots and the only way they can be safe is to drive to the speed limits is rather like telling your class every morning at school they're thick and they'll never amount to anything.
Trust people, treat them like adults but crack down on bad driving and you'll improve standards of driving overnight.
But like I said there are plenty of dumbarses who don't get it so the kerching speeding racket is here to stay.
80 mph in good conditions on the Glencoe-Tyndrum road would not be a problem for any half competent driver. At least it is not in Norway, though
The local bobbies drive fairly fast along there too, as they do elsewhere when just going about their non-emergency business -they are just the same as other people, bu more likely to get away with it.
It would be worth keeping an eye out for large stags in the Highlands. Good lighting on your car is of benefit up there at night.
The local bobbies drive fairly fast along there too, as they do elsewhere when just going about their non-emergency business -they are just the same as other people, bu more likely to get away with it.
It would be worth keeping an eye out for large stags in the Highlands. Good lighting on your car is of benefit up there at night.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 18th August 20:25
Mk3Spitfire said:
How do you know if they are on emergency or non emergency runs?
I have friends who are coppers in different forces who enjoy telling the stories about their escapades and a couple of mates were given a lift by a Policeman in a marked Police car, who liked pressing on a lot (understandably), through Glencoe. Great road.The laws enforcers don't necessarily adhere to all of the laws, they are human, but their job is to enforce it.
Mk3Spitfire said:
How do you know if they are on emergency or non emergency runs?
It doesn't matter a car exceeding the number on the lollipop is dangerous. I mean that's why the speed ticket industry exists isn't it? Good or bad driving doesn't come into it. "No excuse for speeding" is what the cameras in essex have written on.supermono said:
It doesn't matter a car exceeding the number on the lollipop is dangerous. I mean that's why the speed ticket industry exists isn't it? Good or bad driving doesn't come into it. "No excuse for speeding" is what the cameras in essex have written on.
Not an answer to the question, and not 100% sure exactly what you're saying, but ok.The OP is questioning the validity of the law, the pointlessness of enforcing that law, without understanding what he can do about it.
The law, comes from an elected group of people, taking advice from experts and interested parties, and have put in place something that was great for most roads for most road users. That cars and bikes have changed and attitudes have changed (or in fact polarised) does not change the fact that NSL on that stretch of road is 60. That many motorists could do more than that safely, and would know how to decide when 60 was too fast, does not change the max. (There's a road near me that 60 is the limit and you'd be mental to attempt to drive it at that, even on a fine day)
Now the pointlessness of enforcement. Well yes. Plod should be out catching real crims. Except that by the occasional fines, most people will know that if they speed, they might get a ticket, and so might be inclined to stay at speeds where they ONLY get points and don't have to go to court to try and avoid a ban. Is this the reason the OP was ONLY doing 80 and not 120 ?
If you, or I speed, we know what will happen IF we get caught, and we do a risk assessment of that. At present I have no points, so might be more likely to not look at the speedometer whilst on an NSL, unlike when I had a few and would stick religiously to the limit, as I can't afford to lose my transport method.
What can the OP do about it ? Become a member of parliament ?
The law, comes from an elected group of people, taking advice from experts and interested parties, and have put in place something that was great for most roads for most road users. That cars and bikes have changed and attitudes have changed (or in fact polarised) does not change the fact that NSL on that stretch of road is 60. That many motorists could do more than that safely, and would know how to decide when 60 was too fast, does not change the max. (There's a road near me that 60 is the limit and you'd be mental to attempt to drive it at that, even on a fine day)
Now the pointlessness of enforcement. Well yes. Plod should be out catching real crims. Except that by the occasional fines, most people will know that if they speed, they might get a ticket, and so might be inclined to stay at speeds where they ONLY get points and don't have to go to court to try and avoid a ban. Is this the reason the OP was ONLY doing 80 and not 120 ?
If you, or I speed, we know what will happen IF we get caught, and we do a risk assessment of that. At present I have no points, so might be more likely to not look at the speedometer whilst on an NSL, unlike when I had a few and would stick religiously to the limit, as I can't afford to lose my transport method.
What can the OP do about it ? Become a member of parliament ?
supermono said:
Sorry. It doesn't matter if on an emergency or just driving normally, speeding police are hypocrites.
No they arent 1. they have a legal exemption
2. they , like other emergenccy services drivers, have undertaken a number of weeks of specific additional training , assessment and periodic reassessment.
3. they are subject to far greater scrutiny should they have any incident as a result of their driving , whether claiming exemptions or not.
sherbertdip said:
supermono said:
There are many equally valid examples of proof that speed limits and particularly enforcement have little if nothing to do with road safety. Yet dumb people think it's ok because they're told only a superhuman trained in "how to work the throttle into three figures" can do this. Of course if enough people drove in Germany or even explored life over 90mph anywhere and discovered how uneventful it can be, the scam would be up.
By coincidence with your musings I ventured onto You Tube last night and was watching the Russian carnage on the road dash cams, lots of them looked like at speeds of over 90mph life got very eventful, bits of bodies and "exploded" cars everywhere.I drove to work no faster than 55mph this morning safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't cause myself or some other innocent driver to be dismembered in an instant.
Try mumsnet, they're always looking for sanctimonious hypocrites.
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