Speeding - Sometimes safe but not according to Plod....
Discussion
jm doc said:
sherbertdip said:
supermono said:
There are many equally valid examples of proof that speed limits and particularly enforcement have little if nothing to do with road safety. Yet dumb people think it's ok because they're told only a superhuman trained in "how to work the throttle into three figures" can do this. Of course if enough people drove in Germany or even explored life over 90mph anywhere and discovered how uneventful it can be, the scam would be up.
By coincidence with your musings I ventured onto You Tube last night and was watching the Russian carnage on the road dash cams, lots of them looked like at speeds of over 90mph life got very eventful, bits of bodies and "exploded" cars everywhere.I drove to work no faster than 55mph this morning safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't cause myself or some other innocent driver to be dismembered in an instant.
Try mumsnet, they're always looking for sanctimonious hypocrites.
Did you actually read AND understand what i wrote?
I said "safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't cause myself or some other innocent driver to be dismembered in an instant" . Obviously if some texting t
t swerves across the road at 55 and HITS ME head on I'm as dead as them.Nothing sanctimonious or hypocritical (don't judge me when you don't me) in what i wrote, just law abiding none confrontational.
What's "mumsnet"? whatever it is you must frequent it to know what's on it.
Edited by sherbertdip on Tuesday 19th August 10:02
Phatboy317 said:
mph1977 said:
2. they , like other emergenccy services drivers, have undertaken a number of weeks of specific additional training , assessment and periodic reassessment.
Special training to do 35mph on a 30mph dual carriageway?the duration of the majority of emergency driving courses is at least 120 hours / 3 weeks whether it;s done in a 3 week chunk ( like Police Response) or split into phases like the Ambulance Service/ IHCD courses and EFAD is an organisational factor.
mph1977 said:
supermono said:
Sorry. It doesn't matter if on an emergency or just driving normally, speeding police are hypocrites.
No they arent 1. they have a legal exemption
2. they , like other emergenccy services drivers, have undertaken a number of weeks of specific additional training , assessment and periodic reassessment.
3. they are subject to far greater scrutiny should they have any incident as a result of their driving , whether claiming exemptions or not.
Pit Pony said:
What can the OP do about it ? Become a member of parliament ?
Whilst becoming a member of parliament might not be practical, if people have an issue with speed limits being too low and feel there are other ways of addressing road safety than lowering speed limits and rigorously enforcing them they should make it a political issue and take it up with local councillors as something they will choose whether or not to vote for them over. People do it when they want speed limits lowered so take what they say a step further and point out how other things need to be done because simply lowering speed limits in itself doesn't work and doesn't correctly address the issue people are concerned about. Public opinion prevented 60mph speed limits on motorways. With road safety being addressed more and more on a local level, simplistic measures are all too often used such as reducing speed limits and sticking traffic calming measures in because people often equate fast with dangerous and slow with safe.
We've had serious discussions in politics about bringing back hanging and racism has found a place in mainstream politics again because enough people are calling for it.
Blakewater what do you mean by 'poor and aggressive' driving ?
bold positioning and the follow to overtake as taught by some 'civilian' Advanced drivers trainers and by ES driver trainers can be interpreted as aggressive.
one of the elephonats i nthe room here may also be drivers who the management think require only basic driving authorisation yet are expected to attend long distance '1hour' or none local 'immediate' responses, especially as things like driver training are the kind of courses that get scarce when budgets are under pressure even if it;s simply by not replacing trainers as they leave ( as other forces will do the same unless they've decided to try and use it as income generation) and i can see the local press / tabloid reaction to the use of outside contractors to deliver the training ...
bold positioning and the follow to overtake as taught by some 'civilian' Advanced drivers trainers and by ES driver trainers can be interpreted as aggressive.
one of the elephonats i nthe room here may also be drivers who the management think require only basic driving authorisation yet are expected to attend long distance '1hour' or none local 'immediate' responses, especially as things like driver training are the kind of courses that get scarce when budgets are under pressure even if it;s simply by not replacing trainers as they leave ( as other forces will do the same unless they've decided to try and use it as income generation) and i can see the local press / tabloid reaction to the use of outside contractors to deliver the training ...
One particular incident that springs to mind is tailgating so close the front of the police car wasn't visible in the rear view mirror and then using the inside lane at this junction to pass on the inside before moving out and going in the direction indicated for the hospital.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.730215,-2.492457...
If he was attending a genuine emergency at the hospital and needed to get past urgently that's what at least brief use of the lights and siren are for. Closely tailgating isn't a way to get through quickly and safely. I think he was most likely just on routine duty there. I have witnessed the same officer using his lights and siren sat behind a clearly flustered old lady who couldn't work out the best way to move out of his way when she was sitting at a red light. He took the time to stop along side her and give her a lingering look of mock incredulity.
Just because people have been taught how to do something well, it doesn't mean they always make the effort to.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.730215,-2.492457...
If he was attending a genuine emergency at the hospital and needed to get past urgently that's what at least brief use of the lights and siren are for. Closely tailgating isn't a way to get through quickly and safely. I think he was most likely just on routine duty there. I have witnessed the same officer using his lights and siren sat behind a clearly flustered old lady who couldn't work out the best way to move out of his way when she was sitting at a red light. He took the time to stop along side her and give her a lingering look of mock incredulity.
Just because people have been taught how to do something well, it doesn't mean they always make the effort to.
Edited by Blakewater on Wednesday 20th August 15:04
On the subject of hypocritical police yes they are without question.
On the one hand they trot out the speed kills mantra SO set up all kinds of schemes to prosecute speeders on the pretext that speeding is dangerous full stop.
On the other hand they recognise the fact that one can drive safely over the speed limit by doing it themselves.
The very definition of hypocrites.
I don't care what special training they have because they don't take training or conditions or anything whatsoever into account other than what number is on the speedometer when they zap you and claim it's about safety.
I repeat: there are more than enough dumb people who don't get this simple fact to guarantee support for the horrid speed ticketing businesses. Many on this thread for example.
On the one hand they trot out the speed kills mantra SO set up all kinds of schemes to prosecute speeders on the pretext that speeding is dangerous full stop.
On the other hand they recognise the fact that one can drive safely over the speed limit by doing it themselves.
The very definition of hypocrites.
I don't care what special training they have because they don't take training or conditions or anything whatsoever into account other than what number is on the speedometer when they zap you and claim it's about safety.
I repeat: there are more than enough dumb people who don't get this simple fact to guarantee support for the horrid speed ticketing businesses. Many on this thread for example.
supermono said:
On the subject of hypocritical police yes they are without question.
On the one hand they trot out the speed kills mantra SO set up all kinds of schemes to prosecute speeders on the pretext that speeding is dangerous full stop.
On the other hand they recognise the fact that one can drive safely over the speed limit by doing it themselves.
The very definition of hypocrites.
I don't care what special training they have because they don't take training or conditions or anything whatsoever into account other than what number is on the speedometer when they zap you and claim it's about safety.
I repeat: there are more than enough dumb people who don't get this simple fact to guarantee support for the horrid speed ticketing businesses. Many on this thread for example.
let us know when the little green chap has got off your computer. On the one hand they trot out the speed kills mantra SO set up all kinds of schemes to prosecute speeders on the pretext that speeding is dangerous full stop.
On the other hand they recognise the fact that one can drive safely over the speed limit by doing it themselves.
The very definition of hypocrites.
I don't care what special training they have because they don't take training or conditions or anything whatsoever into account other than what number is on the speedometer when they zap you and claim it's about safety.
I repeat: there are more than enough dumb people who don't get this simple fact to guarantee support for the horrid speed ticketing businesses. Many on this thread for example.
As i have pointed out before there are dozens of things which are normally illegal that different groups of people can do in the course of their jobs ...
should we ban Healthcare professionals from keeping and administering class As ?
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 20th August 00:11
The recent wholesale ratcheting down of speed limits has served to highlight just how ridiculous things are getting.
A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
So now I can lose my licence for doing the same speed as I have for many long years, but apparently the police and other emergency drivers can still do 60mph or higher along the same stretch of road, as they've had the 'benefit' of a few weeks of "special training"
A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
So now I can lose my licence for doing the same speed as I have for many long years, but apparently the police and other emergency drivers can still do 60mph or higher along the same stretch of road, as they've had the 'benefit' of a few weeks of "special training"
Phatboy317 said:
The recent wholesale ratcheting down of speed limits has served to highlight just how ridiculous things are getting.
A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
So now I can lose my licence for doing the same speed as I have for many long years, but apparently the police and other emergency drivers can still do 60mph or higher along the same stretch of road, as they've had the 'benefit' of a few weeks of "special training"
They don't have the exemption because they've had training, A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
So now I can lose my licence for doing the same speed as I have for many long years, but apparently the police and other emergency drivers can still do 60mph or higher along the same stretch of road, as they've had the 'benefit' of a few weeks of "special training"
They have the exemption because the legislators believe the benefit of them being able to exceed the limit on occasions justifies it. After that fact as a responsible employer, the employer only lets those who have extra training avail themselves of that exemption when necessary in order to mitigate the risks in doing so.
vonhosen said:
...the employer only lets those who have extra training avail themselves of that exemption when necessary in order to mitigate the risks in doing so.
Are you seriously suggesting that something which millions of people have been safely doing for decades, now suddenly carries some huge risk which requires special training in order to mitigate, simply because some party of councillors decided to arbitrarily lower the limit?Phatboy317 said:
Are you seriously suggesting that something which millions of people have been safely doing for decades, now suddenly carries some huge risk which requires special training in order to mitigate, simply because some party of councillors decided to arbitrarily lower the limit?
Isn't it because of this:http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Speed-limit-Bristol-s...
Doesn't sound that arbitrary to me.
Phatboy317 said:
The recent wholesale ratcheting down of speed limits has served to highlight just how ridiculous things are getting.
A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
Technically known as a Dunwoody limit. A stretch of the M32 in Bristol has had a 60mph limit for as long as I can remember, and I have driven safely along that road at around that speed for several decades, without incident, or even close to an incident.
But now they have reduced that limit from 60 to 40, seemingly without rhyme or reason.
The clueless bint led the Commons Transport Select Committee in the quest for new criteria for setting speed limits. They acted on "evidence" from the likes of BRAKE and Brunstrom and ignored the people who knew their subject.
Socialist control freakery at its worst.
There is certainly a lot of civil disobedience in some of the seemingly ill-advised 20mph zones I've seen -having said that, 20mph probably is 'plenty' on many narrow residential roads with a lot of parked cars to negotiate. It is a pity that a lot of drivers don't use a bit more common sense.
Frik said:
Isn't it because of this:
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Speed-limit-Bristol-s...
Doesn't sound that arbitrary to me.
The speed limit on single-carriageway 'A' roads, without any central reservation, is 60mph.http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Speed-limit-Bristol-s...
Doesn't sound that arbitrary to me.
The speed limit through motorway roadworks, including through contraflows with absolutely nothing of any substance separating opposing traffic flows, is 50mph, and, until very recently, 60mph.
The speed limit on normal dual carriageways, very often with nothing of substance preventing crossovers, is 70mph.
Are you still maintaining that the 40 limit isn't arbitrary?
Also, how many potential crossover incidents have there ever been on the M32?
Edited by Phatboy317 on Tuesday 19th August 23:09
MC Bodge said:
20mph probably is 'plenty' on many narrow residential roads with a lot of parked cars to negotiate.
Yes, but most people don't need to be told that - they do it anyway, regardless of any limits.And the few that don't are hardly likely to pay much attention to speed limits.
Phatboy317 said:
MC Bodge said:
20mph probably is 'plenty' on many narrow residential roads with a lot of parked cars to negotiate.
Yes, but most people don't need to be told that - they do it anyway, regardless of any limits.And the few that don't are hardly likely to pay much attention to speed limits.
I do agree that they are unlikely to adhere to the speed limit anyway, though, and don't approve of most of the 20mph zones.
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