Rammed off road by HGV, who then drove off
Discussion
Zoobeef said:
I'm not concerned about their mistakes. Just interesting things I see in my travels. Also not sure which part of a 6 car crash is a mistake? Or someone nailing it down a hard shoulder in traffic. Were they using the lane by accident?
I can take common sense but sitting there repeatedly saying I was driving too close starts to piss me off. Should I leave my cars at home incase someone else can't drive today? You don't work for BRAKE do you?
Obviously it'll delay my drive home but I'm not going to go out my way to make sure someone else drives safely, how about I look after myself and they do the same. Or my 2 bolts will snap on my towbar while they get their front end caved in again.
Do you watch your own videos back? I can take common sense but sitting there repeatedly saying I was driving too close starts to piss me off. Should I leave my cars at home incase someone else can't drive today? You don't work for BRAKE do you?
Obviously it'll delay my drive home but I'm not going to go out my way to make sure someone else drives safely, how about I look after myself and they do the same. Or my 2 bolts will snap on my towbar while they get their front end caved in again.
You seemed to miss after your accident that the Audi moved forward leaving a bigger gap.
Did you notice that the Astra that was on the hard shoulder actually stopped just up a bit? They were hardly "nailing" it either.
Is someone driving up the hard shoulder or getting their lane wrong at a roundabout interesting? Is it really worth the effort to upload to youtube with their registration plate and adding a a negative opinion to the descriptions?
If it is only "interesting" why do you add comments such as "driver thinks she's better than everyone else?"
It wasn't the greatest use of the hard shoulder but it posed you no risk and she was using it to stop for some unknown reason.
I detest youtube dashcams bloggers. Pretty much everyone that I've seen are very quick to point out everyone else's errors and shortcomings and completely oblivious to their own.
You seem to be in the very same category.
You're introducing things into the discussion that nobody had ever said. Nobody has suggested to leave the car at home.
All I said was that if you maintained a better road position and didn't react as snappy to the Audi in front, you'd not have been involved in an accident. It was probably lucky the Audi didn't brake much harder or the concertina effect would have ended earlier in the line of traffic.
You think you can react quick enough to the car in front and want to put a lot of trust in those behind you.
To me, that's a dangerous game. This time it was a minor bump, but what happens if the person behind you was very slow at reacting or it was something much heavier? It would be a lot worse than a towbar to worry about.
It often takes more than one person to have an accident, and although one person will take the blame, there is often ways of keeping yourself out of others accidents.
We will never agree on this as you are only seeing it from your own side.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 22 August 17:40
Driver101 said:
Do you watch your own videos back?
You seemed to miss after your accident that the Audi moved forward leaving a bigger gap.
Did you notice that the Astra that was on the hard shoulder actually stopped just up a bit? They were hardly "nailing" it either.
Is someone driving up the hard shoulder or getting their lane wrong at a roundabout interesting? Is it really worth the effort to upload to youtube with their registration plate and adding a a negative opinion to the descriptions?
If it is only "interesting" why do you add comments such as "driver thinks she's better than everyone else?"
It wasn't the greatest use of the hard shoulder but it posed you no risk and she was using it to stop for some unknown reason.
I detest youtube dashcams bloggers. Pretty much everyone that I've seen are very quick to point out everyone else's errors and shortcomings and completely oblivious to their own.
You seem to be in the very same category.
You're introducing things into the discussion that nobody had ever said. Nobody has suggested to leave the car at home.
All I said was that if you maintained a better road position and didn't react as snappy to the Audi in front, you'd not have been involved in an accident. It was probably lucky the Audi didn't brake much harder or the concertina effect would have ended earlier in the line of traffic.
You think you can react quick enough to the car in front and want to put a lot of trust in those behind you.
To me, that's a dangerous game. This time it was a minor bump, but what happens if the person behind you was very slow at reacting or it was something much heavier? It would be a lot worse than a towbar to worry about.
It often takes more than one person to have an accident, and although one person will take the blame, there is often ways of keeping yourself out of others accidents.
We will never agree on this as you are only seeing it from your own side.
It is interesting to see this people do, you obviously don't see it as that.You seemed to miss after your accident that the Audi moved forward leaving a bigger gap.
Did you notice that the Astra that was on the hard shoulder actually stopped just up a bit? They were hardly "nailing" it either.
Is someone driving up the hard shoulder or getting their lane wrong at a roundabout interesting? Is it really worth the effort to upload to youtube with their registration plate and adding a a negative opinion to the descriptions?
If it is only "interesting" why do you add comments such as "driver thinks she's better than everyone else?"
It wasn't the greatest use of the hard shoulder but it posed you no risk and she was using it to stop for some unknown reason.
I detest youtube dashcams bloggers. Pretty much everyone that I've seen are very quick to point out everyone else's errors and shortcomings and completely oblivious to their own.
You seem to be in the very same category.
You're introducing things into the discussion that nobody had ever said. Nobody has suggested to leave the car at home.
All I said was that if you maintained a better road position and didn't react as snappy to the Audi in front, you'd not have been involved in an accident. It was probably lucky the Audi didn't brake much harder or the concertina effect would have ended earlier in the line of traffic.
You think you can react quick enough to the car in front and want to put a lot of trust in those behind you.
To me, that's a dangerous game. This time it was a minor bump, but what happens if the person behind you was very slow at reacting or it was something much heavier? It would be a lot worse than a towbar to worry about.
It often takes more than one person to have an accident, and although one person will take the blame, there is often ways of keeping yourself out of others accidents.
We will never agree on this as you are only seeing it from your own side.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 22 August 17:40
So I should have left a larger gap because the guy behind was too close, so you missed the bit about the driver behind not being too close and stopping in time?
Am I supposed to be psychic and see the guy behind him or the one behind him? Because I still don't know if it was the 3 one in the line that started it. They are still fighting over that.
Also you say about the concertina effect. It had already started, the 2 cars in front of the Audi hit each other. The Audi stopped, I stopped and the BMW behind stopped. I didn't stop hard or lock up, I'm in a 12 year old car. Granted it's mechanic sound but it's still 12 years old.
Lined my car up behind another car while looking through the camera and using the video as reference before he moved forward slightly. There was half a car length between my bonnet and his back end so I was hardly parked in his boot was I?
Would you like me to contact my insurers and ask them to send a letter off apology to all involved for causing their incident? As you keep saying "in the eyes of the law it's the car behind" so I take it you think it's my fault?
mikeveal said:
Think about it. Had ZB left a larger gap, he'd have been able to slow more gradually, and that means those behind him would have slowed gradually too.
You can see that ZB had to brake harder than the car in front of him, (because of reaction times). If the driver following ZB had an identical gap to ZB's then he would have to brake even harder than ZB, and the car behind that driver has to brake harder again. Keep going back one car at a time and very soon the gap isn't big enough.
The gap in front of ZB was fine for ZB to stop in, but possibly should have been larger to deal with the fact that the cars behind didn't have a big enough gap to deal with ZB's braking. Or put another way, if the gap in front of you is small enough that you have to brake harder than the car infront, and the gap behind you is small enough that the car behind has to brake harder than you, then the gap in front of you is too small.
Of course you can never leave a big enough gap to deal with the guy whose driving is tertiary to eating a tuna sarnie and texting his Mum.
An of course as far as the law goes, it's the driver behind who is at fault.
Have you heard of victim blaming? In the 1980s we decided it wasn't cool.You can see that ZB had to brake harder than the car in front of him, (because of reaction times). If the driver following ZB had an identical gap to ZB's then he would have to brake even harder than ZB, and the car behind that driver has to brake harder again. Keep going back one car at a time and very soon the gap isn't big enough.
The gap in front of ZB was fine for ZB to stop in, but possibly should have been larger to deal with the fact that the cars behind didn't have a big enough gap to deal with ZB's braking. Or put another way, if the gap in front of you is small enough that you have to brake harder than the car infront, and the gap behind you is small enough that the car behind has to brake harder than you, then the gap in front of you is too small.
Of course you can never leave a big enough gap to deal with the guy whose driving is tertiary to eating a tuna sarnie and texting his Mum.
An of course as far as the law goes, it's the driver behind who is at fault.
Edited by mikeveal on Friday 22 August 14:54
As for the benefits you describe of defensive driving, I understand them (just as I understand that women who don't go out wear provocative clothes are perhaps safer than those who do), but I don't believe that it's realistic to be in the head of the driver two cars behind you.
On a rainy day, in the dark, spending time trying to gauge that driver's environment instead of your own is fraught with risks. Risks for which you will be held responsible morally and legally if push comes to crunch.
- ZB was following with a gap of around one second. Maybe slightly more, but definitely less than two seconds.
- The car in front braked relatively gently at first, giving ZB time to respond, then a lot harder from around the four second mark.
- ZB stopped from 60? mph in around six or seven seconds (as did the car in front) - not quite an emergency stop, but fairly hard braking, given the wet conditions. ZB probably could have stopped more quickly (five seconds?), but so could the car in front.
- The following car hit around eight seconds after the ZB started braking.
- The car in front is not a Toyota.
This looks like the usual procession of too many cars in the right hand lane, all of them following too closely. Lots of fools breaking the two second rule. Sometimes I am one of them.
Obviously you can never have too much space around you on the road, but this looks typical for the A34. There isn't so much traffic in the nearside lane though, is there?
Edited by gweaver on Saturday 23 August 13:36
Edited by gweaver on Saturday 23 August 13:37
andygo said:
Its not that easy to leave a huge gap to the car in front on a motorway as inevitably a numptie will decide to fill it. You then slow down to extend the gap and, well, on it goes. It's a constant frustration when I'm trying to cruise down the motorway and behave myself.
This. It's very difficult to drive safely when the people around you have no lane discipline or respect for other road users and the gap in front of them.I would put it about 50 mph. I know how you southerners like to drive slowly on the A34. And about 1.5 seconds. So its not the 2 second rule but then I'm not going 30 mph faster but then it is raining. So yes it could have been bigger to make it the 2 seconds, but then I'm the one that managed to stop.
In the dry I would normally brake harder earlier to keep myself the gap in front. Then giving myself the space to ease off the brakes and roll it forward should I see the person behind struggling. Being dark and wet I went on the brakes early informing the guy behind then applied more pressure later on making sure I could still stop in my distance but giving the guy behind as much space as he wanted. Hence the reason I watched the guy stop as whenever braking I watch the mirrors so I know what's there. I saw the guy stop and stop short. I'd flicked my eyes back forwards though and missed him being hit.
In the dry I would normally brake harder earlier to keep myself the gap in front. Then giving myself the space to ease off the brakes and roll it forward should I see the person behind struggling. Being dark and wet I went on the brakes early informing the guy behind then applied more pressure later on making sure I could still stop in my distance but giving the guy behind as much space as he wanted. Hence the reason I watched the guy stop as whenever braking I watch the mirrors so I know what's there. I saw the guy stop and stop short. I'd flicked my eyes back forwards though and missed him being hit.
Driver101 said:
I detest youtube dashcams bloggers. Pretty much everyone that I've seen are very quick to point out everyone else's errors and shortcomings and completely oblivious to their own.
You seem to be in the very same category.
Whereas you start threads asking whether you should report other drivers to the police as you don't like how they're driving.You seem to be in the very same category.
A self righteous, hypocritical road captain of the highest order.
Zoobeef said:
I would put it about 50 mph. I know how you southerners like to drive slowly on the A34. And about 1.5 seconds. So its not the 2 second rule but then I'm not going 30 mph faster but then it is raining. So yes it could have been bigger to make it the 2 seconds, but then I'm the one that managed to stop.
In the dry I would normally brake harder earlier to keep myself the gap in front. Then giving myself the space to ease off the brakes and roll it forward should I see the person behind struggling. Being dark and wet I went on the brakes early informing the guy behind then applied more pressure later on making sure I could still stop in my distance but giving the guy behind as much space as he wanted. Hence the reason I watched the guy stop as whenever braking I watch the mirrors so I know what's there. I saw the guy stop and stop short. I'd flicked my eyes back forwards though and missed him being hit.
All this while chopsing to your mum on the phone.In the dry I would normally brake harder earlier to keep myself the gap in front. Then giving myself the space to ease off the brakes and roll it forward should I see the person behind struggling. Being dark and wet I went on the brakes early informing the guy behind then applied more pressure later on making sure I could still stop in my distance but giving the guy behind as much space as he wanted. Hence the reason I watched the guy stop as whenever braking I watch the mirrors so I know what's there. I saw the guy stop and stop short. I'd flicked my eyes back forwards though and missed him being hit.
Watch the video it does look like you left it a bit late as brake lights can be seen on quite a few other vehicles ahead, most professional drivers look at what's going on further up the road ahead and not rely to much on the brake lights directly in front.
Seen many a vehicle come to a stop without any brake lights whatsoever.
Pleased you were not driving a 30 tonner.
SVTRick said:
All this while chopsing to your mum on the phone.
Watch the video it does look like you left it a bit late as brake lights can be seen on quite a few other vehicles ahead, most professional drivers look at what's going on further up the road ahead and not rely to much on the brake lights directly in front.
Seen many a vehicle come to a stop without any brake lights whatsoever.
Pleased you were not driving a 30 tonner.
Ahh another penis. You'll be glad to know I've had my C+E licence since I was 21. 30 tonnes, meh another lightweight.Watch the video it does look like you left it a bit late as brake lights can be seen on quite a few other vehicles ahead, most professional drivers look at what's going on further up the road ahead and not rely to much on the brake lights directly in front.
Seen many a vehicle come to a stop without any brake lights whatsoever.
Pleased you were not driving a 30 tonner.
PorkInsider said:
Driver101 said:
I detest youtube dashcams bloggers. Pretty much everyone that I've seen are very quick to point out everyone else's errors and shortcomings and completely oblivious to their own.
You seem to be in the very same category.
Whereas you start threads asking whether you should report other drivers to the police as you don't like how they're driving.You seem to be in the very same category.
A self righteous, hypocritical road captain of the highest order.
I gave an example and asked "would you"?
You've picked an argument and not read what I've even posted.
Self righteous must be the most overused statement on piston heads. It gets thrown about left, right and centre.
Too many threads end up with either self righteous being thrown about, or if an argument is lost, rather than staying on topic grammar and spelling becomes the major topic.
When I asked my question I was talking about very dangerous and intimidating driving. It was vastly differing from what you see on the road every day.
It wasn't that I didn't like their driving, it was dangerous and frightening for other road users.
The two discussions are completely different and I would have assumed that was obvious.
There is a huge difference between a simple mistake and behaving like a complete and utter idiot on the road.
Obviously in your "self-righteousness" you've failed to show a little common sense to distinguish the difference.
You do see the difference surely?
Edited by Driver101 on Sunday 24th August 00:03
Zoobeef said:
I would put it about 50 mph. I know how you southerners like to drive slowly on the A34. And about 1.5 seconds. So its not the 2 second rule but then I'm not going 30 mph faster but then it is raining. So yes it could have been bigger to make it the 2 seconds, but then I'm the one that managed to stop.
Definitely more by luck than judgement though. I definitely think it's drivers driving far too close (especially for the conditions) and then having too brake too hard that sparks off all those rear end shunts that blocks the roads off every time it rains.yes the op has sneaked of, yet no one has accused him of making the whole thing up, or at least massive exaggerated his side of the story
is it just me thinking that or has everyone else silently come to the same conclusion?
Even a very light contact with a hgv is going to leave some very noticeable evidence, and i think both the police and the comapny owning the truck would be very keen to investigate a hgv drive who would ram another car off the motorway and not stop
is it just me thinking that or has everyone else silently come to the same conclusion?
Even a very light contact with a hgv is going to leave some very noticeable evidence, and i think both the police and the comapny owning the truck would be very keen to investigate a hgv drive who would ram another car off the motorway and not stop
Zoobeef said:
Ahh another penis. You'll be glad to know I've had my C+E licence since I was 21. 30 tonnes, meh another lightweight.
Oh have you good for you Well next time you post up a video of your driving failures it should make interesting watching.
As for the personal insult - say to my face
You retard you would not have the balls
Zoobeef said:
SVTRick said:
Oh have you good for you
Well next time you post up a video of your driving failures it should make interesting watching.
As for the personal insult - say to my face
You retard you would not have the balls
Again what are you not getting about it not being a failure. I left a gap I could stop in. I stopped, someone else didn't and I had 2 broken tow bar bolts and was given £750 to fix it. I replaced the bolts for free. I call that a win.Well next time you post up a video of your driving failures it should make interesting watching.
As for the personal insult - say to my face
You retard you would not have the balls
As for delaying my journey, from me being hit too me setting off again was all within one 3 minute segment of the video. So I wasn't really delayed.
No problem, pop over to the viking squadron royal marines in Bovington if you're in the area.
Edited by Zoobeef on Sunday 24th August 19:39
If you did claim on the other driver's insurance, even if you have protected NCB, just because you were not at fault it doesn't mean it won't affect your insurance premium. It will.
I remember reading that if you are involved in a no fault accident, you're statistically more likely to be involved in more accidents.
Driver101 said:
How did you end up with £750 for a repair that was free?
If you did claim on the other driver's insurance, even if you have protected NCB, just because you were not at fault it doesn't mean it won't affect your insurance premium. It will.
I remember reading that if you are involved in a no fault accident, you're statistically more likely to be involved in more accidents.
That's was the damage assessment as they always replace the whole towbar assembly just in case, regardless of how minor the damage is. They then gave me the money as payment in lieu of the repair.If you did claim on the other driver's insurance, even if you have protected NCB, just because you were not at fault it doesn't mean it won't affect your insurance premium. It will.
I remember reading that if you are involved in a no fault accident, you're statistically more likely to be involved in more accidents.
One none fault claim is very unlikely to effect the premium, a spate of them will though.
I had a none fault in 2003 and nothing changed. Trying to drive a vx220 in the snow in 2010 on the other hand did result in a fault claim. It only put my Noble insurance up to the dizzy heights of £360 though from about £320
I always leave a reasonable gap between me and the car in front when staionary. Why? Cos years ago, in my motorcycling days, the t
t in front engaged reverse, and shot backwards into me. I flew over the car, and landed in the load. Just a bit bruised luckily. And, if a quicker than anticipated stops occurs, I'm always wary of the guy behind, and try to leave a big safety gap in front of me. I've had the sqealing tyres behind me episode, and managed to dodge out of the way !!
t in front engaged reverse, and shot backwards into me. I flew over the car, and landed in the load. Just a bit bruised luckily. And, if a quicker than anticipated stops occurs, I'm always wary of the guy behind, and try to leave a big safety gap in front of me. I've had the sqealing tyres behind me episode, and managed to dodge out of the way !!I find when I watch my own videos back, it shows the shortcomings in my driving.
What I considered correct positioning can look odd, my razor sharp reactions can look a little slow at times etc etc.
My motorway driving videos show I'm a middle lane hogger at heart !
My approach speed to potential and real hazards can be higher than I'd like them to be in the real world.
What I am most surprised by when watching other peoples is the sheer aggression that can be shown, even if only verbal.
What I considered correct positioning can look odd, my razor sharp reactions can look a little slow at times etc etc.
My motorway driving videos show I'm a middle lane hogger at heart !
My approach speed to potential and real hazards can be higher than I'd like them to be in the real world.
What I am most surprised by when watching other peoples is the sheer aggression that can be shown, even if only verbal.
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