Speed limits and drivers going "as fast as they want"
Discussion
We are frequently told by some of our more authoritarian posters that those who in any way object to the proliferation of speed cameras and lowered speed limits just want to be able to drive "as fast as they want". I do wonder whether this assertion is being made in good faith, since it is usually made smugly, without evidence, and at times which seem cherry-picked for maximum annoyance (and to distract from the substance of the debate), but I'll charitably and virtuously assume it's in good faith for now.
Let's go through this very slowly, to leave no room for "misinterpretation". Let us say that the Magic Speed Limit is 20mph, with plenty of life-saving cameras. Does this mean that:
1) Drivers are allowed to go "as fast as they want", without due regard for road conditions, as long as it's within 20mph;
or that:
2) Drivers are not allowed to go as "fast as they want", and still have to moderate their speed according to the road conditions, but they also have to cap their speed at 20mph?
If your answer is 1, then, well, no comment as they say. But do feel free to prove you're right by driving past a police car at 60mph on a typical single-track NSL road. Why not keep doing it in fact?
If your answer is 2, then please consider this further question. The scenario is the same as before, but now, the life-saving cameras have been removed (and maybe, shock horror, the Magic Speed Limit has been raised or even removed altogether). Does this mean that:
1) The aforementioned prohibition on people driving "as fast as they want" has mysteriously been removed (where did it go? It was here a moment ago);
or that:
2) People are still not allowed to drive "as fast as they want", regardless of what the speed limit is, how it is enforced, or whether it even exists at all?
If your answer is 1, I anxiously await your reasoning as to why people can suddenly drive "as fast as they want" in this scenario, but not the previous one.
If your answer is 2, then you presumably agree with me that those who question speed camera or speed limit policy are not in fact trying to allow drivers to go "as fast as they want".
(Yes, I know it's bloody obvious. But some, for whatever reason, keep behaving as though it's not. Perhaps this thread can be cited if they try the same tactic yet again.)
Let's go through this very slowly, to leave no room for "misinterpretation". Let us say that the Magic Speed Limit is 20mph, with plenty of life-saving cameras. Does this mean that:
1) Drivers are allowed to go "as fast as they want", without due regard for road conditions, as long as it's within 20mph;
or that:
2) Drivers are not allowed to go as "fast as they want", and still have to moderate their speed according to the road conditions, but they also have to cap their speed at 20mph?
If your answer is 1, then, well, no comment as they say. But do feel free to prove you're right by driving past a police car at 60mph on a typical single-track NSL road. Why not keep doing it in fact?
If your answer is 2, then please consider this further question. The scenario is the same as before, but now, the life-saving cameras have been removed (and maybe, shock horror, the Magic Speed Limit has been raised or even removed altogether). Does this mean that:
1) The aforementioned prohibition on people driving "as fast as they want" has mysteriously been removed (where did it go? It was here a moment ago);
or that:
2) People are still not allowed to drive "as fast as they want", regardless of what the speed limit is, how it is enforced, or whether it even exists at all?
If your answer is 1, I anxiously await your reasoning as to why people can suddenly drive "as fast as they want" in this scenario, but not the previous one.
If your answer is 2, then you presumably agree with me that those who question speed camera or speed limit policy are not in fact trying to allow drivers to go "as fast as they want".
(Yes, I know it's bloody obvious. But some, for whatever reason, keep behaving as though it's not. Perhaps this thread can be cited if they try the same tactic yet again.)
I don't understand why you're trying to complicate matters.
First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
tenpenceshort said:
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
And, of course, keeping to the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving safe.tenpenceshort said:
I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
+100i'm glad i'm not the only one who didn't understand what the op's chatting about
best i could understand was it' a long winded argument with himself that removing speed limits does not mean everyone will always go faster
and possibly trying to hint that now we're conditioned to go certain speeds that the limits could be safely removed
best i could understand was it' a long winded argument with himself that removing speed limits does not mean everyone will always go faster
and possibly trying to hint that now we're conditioned to go certain speeds that the limits could be safely removed
tenpenceshort said:
I don't understand why you're trying to complicate matters.
First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
Total agreement. First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
tenpenceshort said:
I don't understand why you're trying to complicate matters.
First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
Total agreement. First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
ging84 said:
i'm glad i'm not the only one who didn't understand what the op's chatting about
Another one here, and I'm sure I've got an English 'O' level hiding somewhere!At least I know the difference between 'single-track' and 'single carriageway' though, even if I don't know the relevance of the 60mph bit...
I think people who object to speed limits aren't really bothered too much about the limits themselves existing (apart from the daft and outdated 70mph limit that almost universally ignored) but rather the industrial scale automatic prosecution of people caught driving normally in places where the speed limit is lower than most reasonable people would drive at.
We also object to the safety card being played by the police who know better yet have to be seen to support the extortion who claim (with a straight face) that it's always dangerous to "speed" for a civilian and always safe to speed for a policeman whenever and wherever he chooses. That's just a plain insult to people's intelligence.
It's pretty simple really, The system is a crock and desperately needs reforming, but there are enough mumsnet halfwits to line up behind any uneducated and ill-informed anti-car councillor to support whatever daft scheme he pulls out of his anus so it'll carry on unabated.
And... breathe...
We also object to the safety card being played by the police who know better yet have to be seen to support the extortion who claim (with a straight face) that it's always dangerous to "speed" for a civilian and always safe to speed for a policeman whenever and wherever he chooses. That's just a plain insult to people's intelligence.
It's pretty simple really, The system is a crock and desperately needs reforming, but there are enough mumsnet halfwits to line up behind any uneducated and ill-informed anti-car councillor to support whatever daft scheme he pulls out of his anus so it'll carry on unabated.
And... breathe...
I've legally overtaken police cars on ordinary two way road, but it is a very nervy manoeuvre. I was fully taxed and insured, and they were doing 40 in a 60. Would have been cheeky if they pulled me up, but I was expecting it. Just glad I wasn't, and that I didn't have to creep along at their pace.
I'm in Campania in Italy at the moment and the difference between speed limits and speeds driven is enormous! The speed limits are absurd - between 30 and 60kmh on wide roads with loads of visibility. The locals all drive at 2 or 3 times the speed limit.
I can only assume that the speed limits are there for revenue generation - fine any tourists that 'speed' and fill those empty coffers.
I can only assume that the speed limits are there for revenue generation - fine any tourists that 'speed' and fill those empty coffers.
grumpy52 said:
In Germany you can get done for driving too slowly especially on motorways , also prosecuted for speeding on unrestricted roads its all down to driving to the conditions .
Anyone who's actually driven in Germany will be amazed how quickly and safely you can get places. Last time my son and I visited the ring and Porsche factory/museum it was so liberating to be able to drive to the conditions with only a passing interest of what number was on the speedo. Getting used to wafting about at 170 regularly and occasionally 190 on roads often not as good as some British motorways brought into focus just how victorian our mumsnet/brake brigade are in their thinking.That's why I'm particularly irked to see those starstruck TV police hypocrites bragging about driving 130+ in a clapped out and overloaded volvo to catch some trivial 100/110 mph biker who'd be able to drive about for years at a time without an issue, saying how dangerous he is.
Germany offers the worldwide gold standard we should open our eyes to or otherwise completely waste 50 years of incredible developments of the automobile.
supermono said:
Getting used to wafting about at 170 regularly and occasionally 190 on roads often not as good as some British motorways brought into focus just how victorian our mumsnet/brake brigade are in their thinking..
http://youtu.be/qweSMrw3hKQIn no way is driving at that speed 'wafting' nor does it have any margin for error.
tenpenceshort said:
I don't understand why you're trying to complicate matters.
First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
A VERY intelligent post. First and foremost, drive to the conditions. Secondly, bear in mind that if you drive above the speed limit, you may get caught and be dealt with.
Breaking the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving unsafe.
On a general note, like most drivers, I'm a hypocrite; I believe in speed limits, that people should adhere to them, yet when conditions and safety allow, I have been known to break them.
The only extra addition I'd add: Keeping to the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving safe.
And the problem I have, is that there is a Fashion to reduce speed limits to a point where the speed limit is so low it will be safe in all conditions even if you are pissed, driving with bald tyres on an icy, unsalted road.
Pit Pony said:
A VERY intelligent post.
The only extra addition I'd add: Keeping to the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving safe.
And the problem I have, is that there is a Fashion to reduce speed limits to a point where the speed limit is so low it will be safe in all conditions even if you are pissed, driving with bald tyres on an icy, unsalted road.
I think that, bizarrely, there is quite a big difference between 50 and 60 mph in this regard. I find 50mph so mind-nimbingly dull that I imagine I am actually a safer driver at NSL because I can maintain a higher level of concentration, including because you have to brake sometimes. 50mph on motorways is absurdly slow and always seems actively dangerous to me because people start to pay even less attention than usual.The only extra addition I'd add: Keeping to the speed limit doesn't automatically make your driving safe.
And the problem I have, is that there is a Fashion to reduce speed limits to a point where the speed limit is so low it will be safe in all conditions even if you are pissed, driving with bald tyres on an icy, unsalted road.
ORD said:
I think that, bizarrely, there is quite a big difference between 50 and 60 mph in this regard. I find 50mph so mind-nimbingly dull that I imagine I am actually a safer driver at NSL because I can maintain a higher level of concentration, including because you have to brake sometimes. 50mph on motorways is absurdly slow and always seems actively dangerous to me because people start to pay even less attention than usual.
I had some numpty in a 4x4 nearly drive into me in a 40mph roadworks section of the M5 in Birmingham over the weekend - he just carried on straight despite the chicane in the lane markings, and nearly into the side of me. There was a barrier to my right so I had nowhere to go.And then he had the nerve to hoot and gesticulate at me - but then I suppose it's not a pleasant experience to be suddenly jolted awake while you're driving
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff