Airwheel similar to segway, likely penalty for use ?
Discussion
Having seen a chap zip along the boulevard here in Luanda on an Airwheel I thought it would be a good gift to myself for an upcoming birthday.
It works on the same principle as a segway but is monowheel and very compact.
Anyway the legality of the use is a bit unclear, and I suspect would be the same as a segway, that is only use on private land.
So if I zip around the village I live in there is unlikely to be any repercussions, but if I did use it in the local town what would be the likely penalty should a policeman decide to take action either for use on a pavement, beach boardwalk or on the road ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balancing-Turbo-Electric-W...
It works on the same principle as a segway but is monowheel and very compact.
Anyway the legality of the use is a bit unclear, and I suspect would be the same as a segway, that is only use on private land.
So if I zip around the village I live in there is unlikely to be any repercussions, but if I did use it in the local town what would be the likely penalty should a policeman decide to take action either for use on a pavement, beach boardwalk or on the road ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balancing-Turbo-Electric-W...
Corpulent Tosser said:
Anyway the legality of the use is a bit unclear
Not really - it's clear. It's a motorised vehicle, but doesn't fit any C&U legislation, and - even if it did - it hasn't been type approved for use on roads or pavements. Using it would be completely and utterly illegal, just the same as the minimoto bikes.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4495380...
TooMany2cvs said:
Not really - it's clear. It's a motorised vehicle, but doesn't fit any C&U legislation, and - even if it did - it hasn't been type approved for use on roads or pavements.
It's not nearly that clear cut. As it's electric, it depends on power of the motor. Electric bikes are motorised vehicles and they aren't subject to C&U regs.OP, find out the power output and it's all there on the DVLA website....somewhere.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Electric bikes are motorised vehicles and they aren't subject to C&U regs.
Oh, yes, they are.https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations...
Not sure where the pedals are on a Segway, even ignoring the subtle detail that each motor is 1.5kw, against a 200w total maximum limit. Only Airwheel-alike I can quickly find on a google is the Solowheel. Again, no pedals and 1.5kw motor.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 25th August 09:48
The ones I have seen range from 0.8Kw to 1.7Kw so certainly fall outside the 200w allowed for bicycles, and of course they have no pedals.
Having a quick look I have found a case of a man being fined 70 pounds for using a segway on a pavement, plus the usual costs of course. What if it (airwheel) was used on a road though, could a penalty include points on a licence ? I am thinking probably yes as if it classed as a motor vehicle (stupidly IMO) then using that vehicle without tax/insurance/type approval could be seen as a major offence.
So possible points yes ?
Having a quick look I have found a case of a man being fined 70 pounds for using a segway on a pavement, plus the usual costs of course. What if it (airwheel) was used on a road though, could a penalty include points on a licence ? I am thinking probably yes as if it classed as a motor vehicle (stupidly IMO) then using that vehicle without tax/insurance/type approval could be seen as a major offence.
So possible points yes ?
Corpulent Tosser said:
could a penalty include points on a licence ?
CU60. "Undefined failure to comply with Construction and Use Regulations"Corpulent Tosser said:
if it classed as a motor vehicle (stupidly IMO)
Why "stupidly"? It's a vehicle. It's got a motor. It's a motor vehicle. The clue is in the name. The official definition, as in the C&U regs, is "a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads." - are you suggesting that that DOESN'T apply to a Segway or other similar vehicle, regardless of the number of wheels?Not, of course, that a motor is required for C&U compliance - bicycles have C&U regs they have to conform to, too, because they're road vehicles.
Again, a clue in the name...
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/conte...
Corpulent Tosser said:
Segways are used all over europe and in the US
...under specific legislation which covers them... And that legislation doesn't apply to the UK. Kids in France can ride mopeds at 14, and only needed plates on them very recently. Kids in the US can drive at 16. Those pieces of legislation don't apply to the UK, either, just as much of UK legislation doesn't apply to other countries. They're different countries. They have different laws. Not "all over" Europe, either, because at least one EU country bans them completely, whilst Denmark, Norway and Switzerland all class them as mopeds.
If you don't like a specific UK law, you have three choices - accept that you can't do the thing you wanted, break the law and accept the risk of prosecution, or move to another country where it's legal.
You are, of course, also free to campaign to change the law whilst you do it. Good luck. The last e-petitions weren't exactly awash with signatures...
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13038
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5325
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/17451
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/23442
Oh, here's a couple that are still open...
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64122
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/59282
But, in the meantime, b
hing that you don't like the law because it's "unfair" is pointless and makes you sound like a spoilt brat.[quote]electric disabled buggies
Have you considered that walking instead of using a Segway might resolve the issues apparent in your user name? Half of them, anyway.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 25th August 12:17
TooMany2cvs said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
Segways are used all over europe and in the US
...under specific legislation which covers them... And that legislation doesn't apply to the UK. Kids in France can ride mopeds at 14, and only needed plates on them very recently. Kids in the US can drive at 16. Those pieces of legislation don't apply to the UK, either, just as much of UK legislation doesn't apply to other countries. They're different countries. They have different laws. Not "all over" Europe, either, because at least one EU country bans them completely, whilst Denmark, Norway and Switzerland all class them as mopeds.
If you don't like a specific UK law, you have three choices - accept that you can't do the thing you wanted, break the law and accept the risk of prosecution, or move to another country where it's legal.
You are, of course, also free to campaign to change the law whilst you do it. Good luck. The last e-petitions weren't exactly awash with signatures...
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13038
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5325
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/17451
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/23442
Oh, here's a couple that are still open...
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64122
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/59282
But, in the meantime, b
hing that you don't like the law because it's "unfair" is pointless and makes you sound like a spoilt brat.[quote]electric disabled buggies
Have you considered that walking instead of using a Segway might resolve the issues apparent in your user name? Half of them, anyway.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 25th August 12:17
As for walking, I generally walk 3-4 miles most days and not that it is at all relevant to the subject but my user name has been in use a long time and my corpulence is greatly reduced from what it was.
I quite liked the thought of one ofthese Airwheels just for a bit of fun, even brats are allowed to have fun occasionally, though the C&U regulations of course temper that fun.
Given your own user name perhaps too long driving 2CVs has removed all inclination to have fun
TwigtheWonderkid said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Not really - it's clear. It's a motorised vehicle, but doesn't fit any C&U legislation, and - even if it did - it hasn't been type approved for use on roads or pavements.
It's not nearly that clear cut. As it's electric, it depends on power of the motor. Electric bikes are motorised vehicles and they aren't subject to C&U regs.OP, find out the power output and it's all there on the DVLA website....somewhere.
but i think you'd struggle to suggest that the aforementioned vehicle is any of those
unlicenced, uninsured, not in compliance with C+U, un registered , motorcycle without a helmet ...
the same world of financial impact and licence damage as the mini-moto types though perhaps not the s.59 and/or asbo ...
I don't think they can be compared with mini-moto, top speed 12mph, which is less than electric bikes are allowed, minimotos I have seen are considerably quicker than that.
I have seen segway tours in a couple of european cities and it looks a lot more fun than the usual open top bus tours, it could be an attraction in UK cities too, but clearly we are not considered responsible enough to be allowed to use them in public.
Anyway, given that I don't own enough land to make it worthwhile and the potential of points for using one on the road I think the Airwheel will not be purchased. I will just have to find something else to treat myself to.
I have seen segway tours in a couple of european cities and it looks a lot more fun than the usual open top bus tours, it could be an attraction in UK cities too, but clearly we are not considered responsible enough to be allowed to use them in public.
Anyway, given that I don't own enough land to make it worthwhile and the potential of points for using one on the road I think the Airwheel will not be purchased. I will just have to find something else to treat myself to.
mph1977 said:
electrically assisted pedal cycles are not subject to C+U
They are...mph1977 said:
neither are kiddies toys ...
Ah, now that depends on if you're one of the muppets who thinks any bicycle is a "kiddies toy". But, no, C&U only applies to "thingies" intended, adapted or used as road transport.If you commuted on a space hopper or a pedal-along tractor, there'd be an argument for it coming under RTA and thereby needing to conform to C&U.
TooMany2cvs said:
mph1977 said:
electrically assisted pedal cycles are not subject to C+U
They are...mph1977 said:
neither are kiddies toys ...
Ah, now that depends on if you're one of the muppets who thinks any bicycle is a "kiddies toy". But, no, C&U only applies to "thingies" intended, adapted or used as road transport.If you commuted on a space hopper or a pedal-along tractor, there'd be an argument for it coming under RTA and thereby needing to conform to C&U.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_of...
sshow case where where a vehicle which was simialr to a electrically assisted pedal cycle EXCEPT it had no pdeals was found to be a motor vehicle
"K was stopped by police whilst riding a 'City Mantis' electric scooter on a public road. The scooter looked like a bicycle except that it did not have any pedals or other means of manual propulsion and it was capable of speeds up to 10 miles per hour. K was charged with driving a motor vehicle whilst disqualified and with no insurance.
At trial the issue arose regarding whether the scooter was a motor vehicle. K was acquitted and the case was passed to the High Court following the decision of the trial judge for definitive determination of whether a 'City Mantis' electric scooter was a motor vehicle as defined in the 1988 Act. The Appeal was allowed and the case was remitted with a direction to convict. The scooter was a motor vehicle according to section 185 of the 1988 Act."
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
"Where you can ride an EAPC
If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.
Other kinds of electric bike
Any electric bike that doesn’t meet the EAPC rules needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
The vehicle will also need to be ‘type approved’ to make sure it’s safe to use on the road."
this clearly showsa that type approval applies to electric bikes other than EAPCs.
TooMany2cvs said:
mph1977 said:
this clearly showsa that type approval applies to electric bikes other than EAPCs.
I dunno about an electric bike, but you could easily get a double-decker bus through the holes in that logic.-if it's an EAPC it needs to meet the requirments for EAPCs
- if not it;s a moped or motorcylce and needs to be type approved or IVA'd as such
Corpulent Tosser said:
I don't think they can be compared with mini-moto, top speed 12mph, which is less than electric bikes are allowed, minimotos I have seen are considerably quicker than that.
I have seen segway tours in a couple of european cities and it looks a lot more fun than the usual open top bus tours, it could be an attraction in UK cities too, but clearly we are not considered responsible enough to be allowed to use them in public.
Anyway, given that I don't own enough land to make it worthwhile and the potential of points for using one on the road I think the Airwheel will not be purchased. I will just have to find something else to treat myself to.
Looks like it will have to be a nice flash bike with actual pedals then.....I have seen segway tours in a couple of european cities and it looks a lot more fun than the usual open top bus tours, it could be an attraction in UK cities too, but clearly we are not considered responsible enough to be allowed to use them in public.
Anyway, given that I don't own enough land to make it worthwhile and the potential of points for using one on the road I think the Airwheel will not be purchased. I will just have to find something else to treat myself to.
Seems like if it has pedals then it's fine so technically you could add a couple of pedals and reduce the power then you would be good to go. a bit like on the continent where the kids ride around on pedal and pops, they never seem to use the pedals (unless they run out of fuel).
I agree with the ban on segways, solo wheels and the like as it's bad enough in high streets with OAP's and the lazy speeding about everywhere on mobility scooters, imo any electric on the pavement should follow the same rules as the first cars (be limited to walking speed) as 8mph is far too fast especially when there's kids about.
I agree with the ban on segways, solo wheels and the like as it's bad enough in high streets with OAP's and the lazy speeding about everywhere on mobility scooters, imo any electric on the pavement should follow the same rules as the first cars (be limited to walking speed) as 8mph is far too fast especially when there's kids about.
untakenname said:
mobility scooters, imo any electric on the pavement should follow the same rules as the first cars (be limited to walking speed) as 8mph is far too fast especially when there's kids about.
4mph is the legal maximum speed for pavement use. 8mph mobility scooters can only be used in "high speed mode" on the road.TooMany2cvs said:
untakenname said:
mobility scooters, imo any electric on the pavement should follow the same rules as the first cars (be limited to walking speed) as 8mph is far too fast especially when there's kids about.
4mph is the legal maximum speed for pavement use. 8mph mobility scooters can only be used in "high speed mode" on the road.class 2 is 4 mph max , class 1 is self proppelled
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