SPEEDOS or PEDOs - Should officials face the rap?
Discussion
V8 Fettler said:
I don't know why they were climbing down the knotted sheets. Was it as a result of grooming? Was it the result of threats? My limited understanding is that the law does not recognise any contributory element where the victim is under 16, so "She was asking for it by climbing down the knotted sheets" has no validity whatsoever.
Neither of us needs to know why they were climbing down the sheets, that's not the point.The point is that your solution calls for the girls and/or their parents to tell the police, and the sort of girl who has been conditioned into such behaviour simply isn't going to do that.
I hope you can now see what I am getting at, and why I say that solutions based on the police acting vigorously on information received is only going to be partially effective, and that a good many girls will still be abused.
The solution, if there is one, needs to focus not on the rapists, but on the girls, and to stop them becoming victims in the first place.
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
I don't know why they were climbing down the knotted sheets. Was it as a result of grooming? Was it the result of threats? My limited understanding is that the law does not recognise any contributory element where the victim is under 16, so "She was asking for it by climbing down the knotted sheets" has no validity whatsoever.
Neither of us needs to know why they were climbing down the sheets, that's not the point.The point is that your solution calls for the girls and/or their parents to tell the police, and the sort of girl who has been conditioned into such behaviour simply isn't going to do that.
I hope you can now see what I am getting at, and why I say that solutions based on the police acting vigorously on information received is only going to be partially effective, and that a good many girls will still be abused.
The solution, if there is one, needs to focus not on the rapists, but on the girls, and to stop them becoming victims in the first place.
On the assumption that young girls are impressionable, some are going to fall prey to grooming and subsequent abuse. Ensure that the potential culprits believe that there is a reasonable certainty of being nicked by plod and the likelihood of grooming/abuse falls. If the potential culprits believe there is minimal chance of being nicked then the likelihood of grooming/abuse increases, and that's what happened.
Try a thought experiment: shoot all the groomers/abusers and then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
V8 Fettler said:
In the real world, the focus should be on resolving the problem. If the police had acted meaningfully from an early date then the extent of the abuse would have been much reduced. I'm sure there were some girls/parents/guardians/carers who told police, I'm equally sure that some girls/parents/guardians/carers didn't tell the police. That's human nature.
On the assumption that young girls are impressionable, some are going to fall prey to grooming and subsequent abuse. Ensure that the potential culprits believe that there is a reasonable certainty of being nicked by plod and the likelihood of grooming/abuse falls. If the potential culprits believe there is minimal chance of being nicked then the likelihood of grooming/abuse increases, and that's what happened.
Try a thought experiment: shoot all the groomers/abusers and then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
Your thought experiment fails at the first hurdle- there are no groomers/abusers until grooming/abusing has taken place. If you consider that some girls needing to be abused in order that others will not be is an acceptable solution, then I have nothing to say to you about that.On the assumption that young girls are impressionable, some are going to fall prey to grooming and subsequent abuse. Ensure that the potential culprits believe that there is a reasonable certainty of being nicked by plod and the likelihood of grooming/abuse falls. If the potential culprits believe there is minimal chance of being nicked then the likelihood of grooming/abuse increases, and that's what happened.
Try a thought experiment: shoot all the groomers/abusers and then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
Try a more hopeful thought experiment- prevent the girls from being groomed/abused in the first place, then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
In the real world, the focus should be on resolving the problem. If the police had acted meaningfully from an early date then the extent of the abuse would have been much reduced. I'm sure there were some girls/parents/guardians/carers who told police, I'm equally sure that some girls/parents/guardians/carers didn't tell the police. That's human nature.
On the assumption that young girls are impressionable, some are going to fall prey to grooming and subsequent abuse. Ensure that the potential culprits believe that there is a reasonable certainty of being nicked by plod and the likelihood of grooming/abuse falls. If the potential culprits believe there is minimal chance of being nicked then the likelihood of grooming/abuse increases, and that's what happened.
Try a thought experiment: shoot all the groomers/abusers and then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
Your thought experiment fails at the first hurdle- there are no groomers/abusers until grooming/abusing has taken place. If you consider that some girls needing to be abused in order that others will not be is an acceptable solution, then I have nothing to say to you about that.On the assumption that young girls are impressionable, some are going to fall prey to grooming and subsequent abuse. Ensure that the potential culprits believe that there is a reasonable certainty of being nicked by plod and the likelihood of grooming/abuse falls. If the potential culprits believe there is minimal chance of being nicked then the likelihood of grooming/abuse increases, and that's what happened.
Try a thought experiment: shoot all the groomers/abusers and then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
Try a more hopeful thought experiment- prevent the girls from being groomed/abused in the first place, then calculate the likely extent of grooming/abusing.
V8 Fettler said:
How do you intend to stop all grooming/abusing?
Unfortunately I am not in a position to do so, but, were my opinion sought by those who are, I would suggest that they spend a more money and ensure that the grooming opportunities are stopped. Anyone who has studied this case will know what the main ones were.singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
How do you intend to stop all grooming/abusing?
Unfortunately I am not in a position to do so, but, were my opinion sought by those who are, I would suggest that they spend a more money and ensure that the grooming opportunities are stopped. Anyone who has studied this case will know what the main ones were.V8 Fettler said:
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
How do you intend to stop all grooming/abusing?
Unfortunately I am not in a position to do so, but, were my opinion sought by those who are, I would suggest that they spend a more money and ensure that the grooming opportunities are stopped. Anyone who has studied this case will know what the main ones were.Which brings us full circle.
Telling kids to stay away from politicians and police officers should be on the National Curriculum:
http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/...
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/police-seized-journa...
And before parliament closed for their summer break Kinky Boots said she wanted to introduce measures to protect police whistle blowers.
http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/...
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/police-seized-journa...
And before parliament closed for their summer break Kinky Boots said she wanted to introduce measures to protect police whistle blowers.
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 4th September 19:43
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
How do you intend to stop all grooming/abusing?
Unfortunately I am not in a position to do so, but, were my opinion sought by those who are, I would suggest that they spend a more money and ensure that the grooming opportunities are stopped. Anyone who has studied this case will know what the main ones were.Which brings us full circle.
Read this (again): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11064...
The key is that plod (and others) needed to deal with the problem ASAP, they didn't. There is another issue in Rotherham: the locals generally detest and distrust plod, so the chances of uninvited communication is probably low. For many, this goes back to the miner's strike, or possibly before.
V8 Fettler said:
Did I not say earlier that some girls/parents/guardians/carers would contact police?
Some will, they will be ok but obviously will need to be abused first, before they can do that, and some won't.I can't think that I will have any more to say on this subject, especially if it continues in this circular manner.
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
Did I not say earlier that some girls/parents/guardians/carers would contact police?
Some will, they will be ok but obviously will need to be abused first, before they can do that, and some won't.I can't think that I will have any more to say on this subject, especially if it continues in this circular manner.
V8 Fettler said:
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
Did I not say earlier that some girls/parents/guardians/carers would contact police?
Some will, they will be ok but obviously will need to be abused first, before they can do that, and some won't.I can't think that I will have any more to say on this subject, especially if it continues in this circular manner.
It goes like this- abuse, report, investigation, prosecution, no more abuse.
Personally I would like to see the abuse prevented altogether, without there having to be enough of it that there are prosecutions which lead to would be rapists being deterred.
Maybe for a while Rotherham will be too 'hot' for such activities, but there are plenty of other cities where most of the taxis are driven by men who are likely subject to the same temptations.
That's it from me, it's been interesting but I don't think it's worth pursuing.
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
Did I not say earlier that some girls/parents/guardians/carers would contact police?
Some will, they will be ok but obviously will need to be abused first, before they can do that, and some won't.I can't think that I will have any more to say on this subject, especially if it continues in this circular manner.
It goes like this- abuse, report, investigation, prosecution, no more abuse.
Personally I would like to see the abuse prevented altogether, without there having to be enough of it that there are prosecutions which lead to would be rapists being deterred.
Maybe for a while Rotherham will be too 'hot' for such activities, but there are plenty of other cities where most of the taxis are driven by men who are likely subject to the same temptations.
That's it from me, it's been interesting but I don't think it's worth pursuing.
Edit: don't really need successful prosecutions, just the reasonable certainty of being dragged down the nick and the possibility of jail time.
Edited by V8 Fettler on Thursday 4th September 21:39
V8 Fettler said:
But the abuse has already occurred! Do you have a time machine?
Edit: don't really need successful prosecutions, just the reasonable certainty of being dragged down the nick and the possibility of jail time.
Edit: don't really need successful prosecutions, just the reasonable certainty of being dragged down the nick and the possibility of jail time.
The council leaders who presided over child abuse scandal by Gordon Rayner and Martin Evans and John Bingham Telegraph website 27 August 2014 said:
Last year, during an appearance before Parliament’s Home Affairs Select Committee to give evidence on child grooming in Rotherham she told MPs: “I do not think I would fully accept that we have failed dismally to deal with the issue.”
When asked why there had been so few people brought to justice for child sexual exploitation in Rotherham, she replied:“Prosecution is the icing on the cake.”
from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11060...When asked why there had been so few people brought to justice for child sexual exploitation in Rotherham, she replied:“Prosecution is the icing on the cake.”
Going on the photos I don't think Space Lizards can be ruled out.
V8 Fettler said:
There is another issue in Rotherham: the locals generally detest and distrust plod, so the chances of uninvited communication is probably low. For many, this goes back to the miner's strike, or possibly before.
I disagree with this. I agree with you about disruption and deterrence, though.
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
There is another issue in Rotherham: the locals generally detest and distrust plod, so the chances of uninvited communication is probably low. For many, this goes back to the miner's strike, or possibly before.
I disagree with this. I agree with you about disruption and deterrence, though.
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