SPEEDOS or PEDOs - Should officials face the rap?
Discussion
Carinaman, I hope you take this as the friendly thought it is; whatever has happened to you with the authorities obviously left you with a very tainted view. You might be entirely justified in that view, in relation to what happened to you, however the dots you try and join in many threads throughout PH, in which an event is almost at random linked to wrongdoing by those authorities, aren't a healthy pastime. Maybe you're being an internet persona and you don't really join the dots in the way you do on PH? I hope so, otherwise I suggest (as one person who has first hand experience of Police and local authority wrongdoing to another) you take a few steps back and evaluate your feelings. From the outside, you're sounding increasingly irrational, and that must be impacting on your wider quality of life.
End of rant.
End of rant.
Mill Wheel said:
My point was NOT that motorists are put upon; rather that cases are pursued with apparent enthusiasm against speeders and alleged paedeophiles, while the people in authority whose neglect of duty led to vulnerable people suffering abuse appear to be going unpunished.
If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
Has it actually been established that they neglected their duty? It's been established that bad things happened, but I hadn't realised that any blame had been apportioned by a court on anyone but the people actually involved. Unless the court of media-led public opinion is sufficient to establish their guilt?If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
robinessex said:
And I wouldn't mind betting that somewhere along the line, government fund cutting is a root cause of this.
No offence mate; but what a load of b
ks. This has been brushed under the carpet for many years before we had all those nasty Tory cuts to blame for everything. 
singlecoil said:
Mill Wheel said:
My point was NOT that motorists are put upon; rather that cases are pursued with apparent enthusiasm against speeders and alleged paedeophiles, while the people in authority whose neglect of duty led to vulnerable people suffering abuse appear to be going unpunished.
If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
Has it actually been established that they neglected their duty? It's been established that bad things happened, but I hadn't realised that any blame had been apportioned by a court on anyone but the people actually involved. Unless the court of media-led public opinion is sufficient to establish their guilt?If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
Of course the authorities might find this a touch embarrassing and inconvenient - but I am sure Cliff Richard feels the same way... but he returned home to face questioning just the same.
tenpenceshort said:
End of rant.
No offence taken. As I've stated before I mentioned your online postings before your mishap and experience inside to a police officer giving advice on 'soshul mejia' so I mentioned you before the public sector smear mongers decided to butt into my life. Besides what's eating me, I now have five first hand examples of where the public sector doesn't do what their own training or policies say. My little FaceBork discovery would be an example of where an officer hasn't used the 'soshul mejia' training where I mentioned you and your experience to a police officer delivering such training.
Meanwhile these people think that can bring the public to book and account.
It's also partially a problem with frauds, people that aren't what they pass themselves off as being. It's like someone bidding for an non-existent 944S2 on eBay but in a uniform with powers and paid for by us.
My view may be jaundiced. I'd call it true.
tenpenceshort, I appreciate your comment, and people in real life have expressed similar views and I have reassured them that it will be sorted out this year. I feel a bit honoured at your kind words and you have made me smile.Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 27th August 23:22
I want to know why they cannot they be charged with Misconduct in Public Office?
'Emma' also asked on Radio 4, why (these officials) cannot be charged with perverting the course of justice since they knew and deliberately covered things up.
I think a very good question.
'Emma' also asked on Radio 4, why (these officials) cannot be charged with perverting the course of justice since they knew and deliberately covered things up.
I think a very good question.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Thursday 28th August 00:27
Martin4x4 said:
I want to know why they cannot they be charged with Misconduct in Public Office?
'Emma' also asked on Radio 4, why (these officials) cannot be charged with perverting the course of justice since they knew and deliberately covered things up.
I think a very good question.
Spot on!'Emma' also asked on Radio 4, why (these officials) cannot be charged with perverting the course of justice since they knew and deliberately covered things up.
I think a very good question.
Additionally, attempting to pervert the course of justice can get a 2 year sentence, that would meet the rules for ditching PCCs.
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 28th August 06:24
Should people be summarily dismissed as a knee-jerk response to media pressure? Absolutely not
Should there be a thorough, independent enquiry into the performance and conduct of those with an accountability for preventing events such as these, with proper disciplinary/legal action taken against those found to have under-performed? Absolutely yes
Should there be a thorough, independent enquiry into the performance and conduct of those with an accountability for preventing events such as these, with proper disciplinary/legal action taken against those found to have under-performed? Absolutely yes
I agree with Clapham GT3.
In the Baby P case, Ms Shoosmith the relevant local authority senior officer was branded by media and her employer as the villain. Eventually she won substantial compensation for being unfairly railroaded out to satisfy those calling for tumbrils and guillotines.
I spent almost two years working on the Stafford Hospital Inquiry. That taught me a lot, but there was a lot more evidence of neglect, incompetence, spinelessness and buck passing than there was of intentional wrongdoing. Many of the offences that people mention in the Rotherham context such as perverting the course of justice and misconduct in public office involve elements of intent that may be hard to prove.
I do think that people should do the old fashioned thing and resign when they have presided over an organisation that has failed, even if they have no direct personal culpability for the failure, but I am probably just old fashioned.
In the Baby P case, Ms Shoosmith the relevant local authority senior officer was branded by media and her employer as the villain. Eventually she won substantial compensation for being unfairly railroaded out to satisfy those calling for tumbrils and guillotines.
I spent almost two years working on the Stafford Hospital Inquiry. That taught me a lot, but there was a lot more evidence of neglect, incompetence, spinelessness and buck passing than there was of intentional wrongdoing. Many of the offences that people mention in the Rotherham context such as perverting the course of justice and misconduct in public office involve elements of intent that may be hard to prove.
I do think that people should do the old fashioned thing and resign when they have presided over an organisation that has failed, even if they have no direct personal culpability for the failure, but I am probably just old fashioned.
Breadvan72 said:
I agree with Clapham GT3.
I do think that people should do the old fashioned thing and resign when they have presided over an organisation that has failed, even if they have no direct personal culpability for the failure, but I am probably just old fashioned.
Well if you are, then I am too. Isn't this what the concept of accountability (as compared to responsibility) is all about?I do think that people should do the old fashioned thing and resign when they have presided over an organisation that has failed, even if they have no direct personal culpability for the failure, but I am probably just old fashioned.
There are two things that leap out from this:
Nobody in Rotherham child services has any place in any part of the public sector in any capacity ever again.
Political correctness has had its day. Its time to focus on getting the job done, not diversity, so lets have a public breakdown of arrests and convictions published by ethnicity annually.
Nobody in Rotherham child services has any place in any part of the public sector in any capacity ever again.
Political correctness has had its day. Its time to focus on getting the job done, not diversity, so lets have a public breakdown of arrests and convictions published by ethnicity annually.
Mill Wheel said:
singlecoil said:
Mill Wheel said:
My point was NOT that motorists are put upon; rather that cases are pursued with apparent enthusiasm against speeders and alleged paedeophiles, while the people in authority whose neglect of duty led to vulnerable people suffering abuse appear to be going unpunished.
If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
Has it actually been established that they neglected their duty? It's been established that bad things happened, but I hadn't realised that any blame had been apportioned by a court on anyone but the people actually involved. Unless the court of media-led public opinion is sufficient to establish their guilt?If we can see the courts punishing Huhne and Hall years after the offence, then SURELY these clowns must be brought to book, not allowed to continue in enjoyment of their present salaries.
Of course the authorities might find this a touch embarrassing and inconvenient - but I am sure Cliff Richard feels the same way... but he returned home to face questioning just the same.
If you are proposing that there should be another orgiastic waste of public money on yet another slew of public enquiries or court cases then I suggest you, and the people who feel the same way, pay the lawyers involved (and there will be a lot of them) yourselves.
By all means bring the people who actually committed the crimes to justice, but when you want to start in on the people who you and the media think ought to have prevented those crimes then that's a different thing altogether.
LucreLout said:
Its time to focus on getting the job done, not diversity, so lets have a public breakdown of arrests and convictions published by ethnicity annually.
Yes, stop keeping that data from us. They should put it on the Home Office website so a 10 second Google search would find it. If they did, it may look something like this: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...singlecoil said:
It's not a question of whether something is important or not, it's a question if whether something is more important that something else, and when resources are limited it becomes even more important to decide on which thing is the most important.
If you are proposing that there should be another orgiastic waste of public money on yet another slew of public enquiries or court cases then I suggest you, and the people who feel the same way, pay the lawyers involved (and there will be a lot of them) yourselves.
By all means bring the people who actually committed the crimes to justice, but when you want to start in on the people who you and the media think ought to have prevented those crimes then that's a different thing altogether.
Firstly neglect of duty in many areas of authority IS a crime.If you are proposing that there should be another orgiastic waste of public money on yet another slew of public enquiries or court cases then I suggest you, and the people who feel the same way, pay the lawyers involved (and there will be a lot of them) yourselves.
By all means bring the people who actually committed the crimes to justice, but when you want to start in on the people who you and the media think ought to have prevented those crimes then that's a different thing altogether.
Secondly we have seen huge amounts of money lavished on abuse cases and alleged victims are compensated with money from the tax payer. All I am suggesting is that we address all the crimes and investigations even handedly, and not allow the CPS to pursue high profile individuals (celebrities) without considering these well paid council officials who by all accounts looked the other way rather than reveal the ethnicity of the perpetrators.
I see that South Yorkshire Police weren't so short of resources last week as to be able to send how many detectives to search the Berkshire home of a 73 year old white man in relation to an alleged sex offence that occured 30 years ago. However since said white man was born in India, maybe that's the 'Asian' link they were looking for.
Just saying...
Just saying...
Mill Wheel said:
Firstly neglect of duty in many areas of authority IS a crime.
Secondly we have seen huge amounts of money lavished on abuse cases and alleged victims are compensated with money from the tax payer. All I am suggesting is that we address all the crimes and investigations even handedly, and not allow the CPS to pursue high profile individuals (celebrities) without considering these well paid council officials who by all accounts looked the other way rather than reveal the ethnicity of the perpetrators.
There's damning evidence right there. Secondly we have seen huge amounts of money lavished on abuse cases and alleged victims are compensated with money from the tax payer. All I am suggesting is that we address all the crimes and investigations even handedly, and not allow the CPS to pursue high profile individuals (celebrities) without considering these well paid council officials who by all accounts looked the other way rather than reveal the ethnicity of the perpetrators.
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