Due Care and Attenton
Discussion
zedx19 said:
Regardless of anything else you've said, overtaking on the wrong side of bollards is idiotic. Sounds to me like you needed to prove your masculinity to this "big brand new BMW".
The manoeuvre initially wasn't overtaking via routing around the island. It was a result of the driver slamming his brakes on, me going to overtake, then when I did, him speeding up to the point where I felt the safest option was to go around, than cut him up or crash. In hindsight stopping would have been closer to the letter of the law. But didn't factor in my adrenaline/ scared rush.
CPS says:
The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed.
So I guess they can ban you but whether they would/should - I don't know.
The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed.
So I guess they can ban you but whether they would/should - I don't know.
walm said:
CPS says:
The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed.
So I guess they can ban you but whether they would/should - I don't know.
Ban reasonably likely if this gets to court. Otherwise, in the range 7-9 points. I'd put this in the 'borderline dangerous driving' category of careless driving offences. Appropriate fine would be starting point level C (150% net weekly).The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed.
So I guess they can ban you but whether they would/should - I don't know.
Ban probably 1-3 months.
Hmm, the driving gods are out in force.
If anyone overtook me, and if I so wanted, I could prevent their overtake by simply putting my foot to the floor. All the driving gods here could have been in the same position as you therefore.
Overtaking isn't illegal, and nor is it racing.
The only difference between the op and myself is that if I was halfway through an overtake and the car to the right sped up significantly, I would simply brake, and pull in behind them. In otherwords be the bigger man when the risks were starting to escalate. In twenty years I have never gone the wrong side of a crossing because no one would be expecting to see my car there and therefor ethe risks are much higher than they look.
Not sure from your description op, but if the car doing the speeding up was the undercover police car I would be quite happy to have my day in court showing my car camcorder.
If not I'm afraid I would probably tone down the driving knowing that there were a growing number of passive aggressives around that need more sex in their lives
If anyone overtook me, and if I so wanted, I could prevent their overtake by simply putting my foot to the floor. All the driving gods here could have been in the same position as you therefore.
Overtaking isn't illegal, and nor is it racing.
The only difference between the op and myself is that if I was halfway through an overtake and the car to the right sped up significantly, I would simply brake, and pull in behind them. In otherwords be the bigger man when the risks were starting to escalate. In twenty years I have never gone the wrong side of a crossing because no one would be expecting to see my car there and therefor ethe risks are much higher than they look.
Not sure from your description op, but if the car doing the speeding up was the undercover police car I would be quite happy to have my day in court showing my car camcorder.
If not I'm afraid I would probably tone down the driving knowing that there were a growing number of passive aggressives around that need more sex in their lives
agtlaw said:
Ban reasonably likely if this gets to court. Otherwise, in the range 7-9 points. I'd put this in the 'borderline dangerous driving' category of careless driving offences. Appropriate fine would be starting point level C (150% net weekly).
Ban probably 1-3 months.
Really ?Ban probably 1-3 months.
I've known many people do much worse (injury RTCs involved) and get much less than your prediction.
Mk3Spitfire said:
To say you "modified" your driving gives the impression that they may well have had good cause to stop you those 4 times.
To pick up on that one comment out of the rest of the context gives the impression that you want to have good cause to defend those who stopped me 4 times with no real reason to do so.By "modify" I mean things like drift along with the blue rinse brigade in the inside lane of a dual carriageway rather than going with the flow in the outer lane.
Or coming to a complete stop at every single "give way" sign and waiting until there is absolutely nothing in sight before moving off. Because once I was tugged for not stopping at a roundabout (it's true, I rolled over the "give way" sign at about 5mph) despite it being about 1am and the only other car in sight was the police car who was already half way around the roundabout in the third lane (I was in the inside lane of 3, taking the first exit). This was the "you looked wrong" occasion but the reason for the tug was failing to come to a complete halt at the give way.
Or, generally not driving the Lotus at all after pub closing time because that seemed to be a trigger to be breathalysed (youngish lad, fastish car, on his own, 11:30pm = drink driver candidate).
If it was about my driving, how do you explain not a single tug in 7 years, then I change from an inconspiuous car to a highly visible one and the pattern immediately changes? I don't regard that I drove the Lotus any differently than I did before.
In any event, I'm not actually complaining about it. It was all a long time ago and at least I was able to acknowledge that I had significantly increased my visibility by my choice of car and that in order to avoid being stopped I had to find a way to reduce that. Young chap + sports car = target, as JustinP1 said.
Having said all that, one of the BiBs was a complete cock. The others were all completely fine and polite and let me away within a few minutes once they realised the car wasn't stolen (this was the early 80's, there was a lot of it about).
S3Ad said:
Time to sell I think
Word to the wise.5 Door Golf GT, resale dull metallic colour, Superchip.
If you go for the (std)170bhp one the chip will see you with over 200bhp and 427nm, the 140bhp will become 177bhp and 395nm.
I am told by a friend that the chipped 140 loses about 1m per second to a Mk6 R32 under full bore acceleration from 40mph onwards to far beyond licence losing speeds.
Makes you think.
Then again I always did have a soft spot for sleepers.
PhilboSE said:
This was the "you looked wrong" occasion but the reason for the tug was failing to come to a complete halt at the give way.
Surely you didn't have to come to a complete stop at a GIVE WAY sign with broken lines, it means slow down 'or stop if necessary' to wait until it's safe to proceed.On the other hand one of those octagonal STOP sign does mean come to a complete halt ahead of the line.
Mk3Spitfire said:
To say you "modified" your driving gives the impression that they may well have had good cause to stop you those 4 times.
It is more than possible. I know that when I was younger some of the conversations were well deserved and those were always in my Maestro or 1.4 Golf. That said when I took one of the family cars out I could drive like Miss Daisy was in the back yet still get a pull. It got to the point where I was on first name terms with the desk girl at the local station and once, on alighting my car, heard the local Sargent exclaim "Oh f
k me, not you again, Dad's got another new car I see!"If you are young and drive a fast, or fast looking, or shouty car (regardless of how you drive it) you will spend a lot of time learning to pass the attitude test.
Red 4 said:
Really ?
I've known many people do much worse (injury RTCs involved) and get much less than your prediction.
Yes. Me too. Including cases involving death. Culpability level much lower though. I've known many people do much worse (injury RTCs involved) and get much less than your prediction.
I think he's in real trouble if charged. Depends (a) what he's prepared to admit and (b) personal mitigation - loss of employment, family, etc.
Edited by agtlaw on Thursday 28th August 17:23
OP, you didn't have to overtake. The speed limit is not a target. Your description suggests that you were in competitive mode. Overtaking on the approach to a roundabout may well be hazardous, depending on the road layout and conditions. Driving is not all about using the car's performance. Anticipation and hazard evaluation are a big deal, and maybe you need to revise these subjects.
I add that in my twenties I drove like an utter tool, but that was foolish, and I booked onto some courses and got a bit less daft.
I add that in my twenties I drove like an utter tool, but that was foolish, and I booked onto some courses and got a bit less daft.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 28th August 17:36
turbobloke said:
Surely you didn't have to come to a complete stop at a GIVE WAY sign with broken lines, it means slow down 'or stop if necessary' to wait until it's safe to proceed.
On the other hand one of those octagonal STOP sign does mean come to a complete halt ahead of the line.
I wasn't about to take it up with the BiB, I was 25 and nervous as hell! Basically he saw me in the car, (late summer evening, roof down, looked...unusual?) decided for a tug, gave that as the reason then when pressed "you looked wrong".On the other hand one of those octagonal STOP sign does mean come to a complete halt ahead of the line.
That was the point where I realised I needed to reduce my profile a bit.
Edited by PhilboSE on Thursday 28th August 17:38
Breadvan72 said:
OP, you didn't have to overtake. The speed limit is not a target. Your description suggests that you were in competitive mode. Overtaking on the approach to a roundabout may well be hazardous, depending on the road layout and conditions. Driving is not all about using the car's performance. Anticipation and hazard evaluation are a big deal, and maybe you need to revise these subjects.
I think you may have misunderstood my ramblings.The overtake wasn't on the approach to a roundabout, the road it self is over a mile long and straight. And objectively speaking unpopulated, what I went around was a traffic island relatively close to the start of the road. With oncoming traffic etc easily viewable.
I wouldn't say I used the cars power either, I didn't accelerate hard or go over 45mph in a 40
PhilboSE said:
turbobloke said:
Surely you didn't have to come to a complete stop at a GIVE WAY sign with broken lines, it means slow down 'or stop if necessary' to wait until it's safe to proceed.
On the other hand one of those octagonal STOP sign does mean come to a complete halt ahead of the line.
I wasn't about to take it up with the BiB, I was 25 and nervous as hell! Basically he saw me in the car, (late summer evening, roof down, looked...unusual?) decided for a tug, gave that as the reason then when pressed "you looked wrong".On the other hand one of those octagonal STOP sign does mean come to a complete halt ahead of the line.
S3Ad said:
big brand new BMW, decides as I've caught them up over the course of a 60mph road, flash the brake lights to stop me getting too close....
This should have been the first warning to the OP that something was amiss.BMW's are frequently used as unmarked police cars.
Unmarked Astra's are another one to watch out for if you see them driving very slow or coming at you very fast.
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