Due Care and Attenton

Author
Discussion

sherbertdip

1,097 posts

118 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
Now fast forward to last night, driving home long day, bad year (shall not bore you) again I know no excuses.

Drive a rather bright Red Audi - Stigma. Its an S3 - further stereotype. I'm not one for tailgating or overly rash driving, despite being relatively young, early/ mid 20's.

To give some context, last night not far from home, big brand new BMW, decides as I've caught them up over the course of a 60mph road, flash the brake lights to stop me getting too close. Fair enough, leave a lot of space.

Road goes to 40mph, area becomes a little more urban. Two traffic islands, slams its brakes on to 25mph or so, I could've slammed on, but instead I went to overtake as it was safe to do so. However of course the nice friendly BMW driver decides to speed up - foot to the floor, drop it a few gears jobbie.

Didn't quite catch me, but reduced the space to manoeuvre safely, so I went around the traffic island - small one with the two plastic bollards. No people or cars around bar us or behind. Queue flashing blues etc.
I know you've taken a little bit of a bashing, from me included, but I and others just try and picture the scenario from what you wrote. However, i do wonder the following:

Why do you assume the driver of the BMW was pissed off at you because you caught him up and not that you were in his opinion stuck up his arse, hence he flashed the brake lights?

You then said that you left a lot of space, if so why did the driver get wound up to the point of slamming his brakes on?

Either the other driver was an arse, which if he did as you say speed up when you overtook, (which is potentially deserving of Dangerous Driving i would have said) or you were being antagonistic and really pissed him off.

So, did you piss him off by tailgating and then carrying out a rash overtake, or was he a total and utter prick?

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
He came to a virtual stop, I decided to over take when I hit 25. To accelerate upto someone doing a constant speed, it was my guess. Despite my eyesight, I cannot even see the speedo on a car behind me; therefore it was a guess: estimation of what would be required

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
sherbertdip said:
I know you've taken a little bit of a bashing, from me included, but I and others just try and picture the scenario from what you wrote. However, i do wonder the following:

Why do you assume the driver of the BMW was pissed off at you because you caught him up and not that you were in his opinion stuck up his arse, hence he flashed the brake lights?

You then said that you left a lot of space, if so why did the driver get wound up to the point of slamming his brakes on?

Either the other driver was an arse, which if he did as you say speed up when you overtook, (which is potentially deserving of Dangerous Driving i would have said) or you were being antagonistic and really pissed him off.

So, did you piss him off by tailgating and then carrying out a rash overtake, or was he a total and utter prick?
Like I say I wasn't tailgating, I wasn't by any stretch close. To the point where to brake check me so many times is irrational.

I think the inclusion of my car and age has given way to a lot of stereotypes. Like I've said I'm not in the bios was of hanging off bumpers of doubling the speed limit.

Edit; it's worth noting I became close again when the road hit 40. As I wasn't expecting such a violent brake from 60 ish to 40 in the distance covered. But again left subsequent space, before the bmw again doing it again.


Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 18:16

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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An S3 is to most people just another hatchback. (No offence, still lovely cars) I don't think that many would stereotype you for driving an S3. They may stereotype you for you manner of driving however!

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
An S3 is to most people just another hatchback. (No offence, still lovely cars) I don't think that many would stereotype you for driving an S3. They may stereotype you for you manner of driving however!
Stenotype being relatively young with a moderately potentially highly powerful car. Hell bent on showing a bmw I'm better

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Red 4 said:
agtlaw said:
Ban reasonably likely if this gets to court. Otherwise, in the range 7-9 points. I'd put this in the 'borderline dangerous driving' category of careless driving offences. Appropriate fine would be starting point level C (150% net weekly).

Ban probably 1-3 months.
Really ?

I've known many people do much worse (injury RTCs involved) and get much less than your prediction.
Well, one of you two is a very experienced and highly regarded lawyer specialising in motoring law, so I think I know which one I'm betting on.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
Breadvan72 said:
OP, you didn't have to overtake. The speed limit is not a target. Your description suggests that you were in competitive mode. Overtaking on the approach to a roundabout may well be hazardous, depending on the road layout and conditions. Driving is not all about using the car's performance. Anticipation and hazard evaluation are a big deal, and maybe you need to revise these subjects.
I think you may have misunderstood my ramblings.

The overtake wasn't on the approach to a roundabout, the road it self is over a mile long and straight. And objectively speaking unpopulated, what I went around was a traffic island relatively close to the start of the road. With oncoming traffic etc easily viewable.

I wouldn't say I used the cars power either, I didn't accelerate hard or go over 45mph in a 40
You still ended up going the wrong way around a traffic island and appear to think that that was OK. People have been gentle with you, OP, but with every post you make the more I think that an enforced rest from driving and then a bit of retraining would be good things.


S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
You still ended up going the wrong way around a traffic island and appear to think that that was OK. People have been gentle with you, OP, but with every post you make the more I think that an enforced rest from driving and then a bit of retraining would be good things.
I don't think it's good at all. But compared to a roundabout, I consider it quite considerably better.

I don't mean to offend. But how you can take my tone as thinking it's ok, or implying that I do, I was merely correcting your statement.

When from your statement, I took your meaning that I was a yob in a hatch, harassing other motorists wrangling each pony out of the engine, whilst negotiating a roundabout the wrong way.

Tone it's self I find hard to negotiate from words, when taken into the context of the reader.

Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 19:20


Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 19:21

12lee

156 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
Tone it's self I find hard to negotiate from words
Have I stumbled upon a cryptic crossword clue?

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
I don't think it's good at all. But compared to a roundabout, I consider it quite considerably better.

I don't mean to offend. But how you can take my tone as thinking it's ok, or implying that I do, I was merely correcting your statement.
This is going to sound patronising, for which I apologise; you sound very much like I did at your age. At 23, back in 2002, I had a civic type-r, a fuel card and the open road to attack.

According to me, every piece of bad driving I did was either justified 'because', or it was the other drivers' fault.

I knew how to pass the attitude teat, so I was pulled over for driving too quickly a few times, but prosecuted (too) little.

With the greatest of respect, it's now time to reassess your driving, OP. It took a prison sentence for me to learn my lesson. I sincerely hope it doesn't take you such a commitment.

Mave

8,208 posts

214 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
Stenotype being relatively young with a moderately potentially highly powerful car. Hell bent on showing a bmw I'm better
Not trying to stereotype at all based on age or car. But the story laid out I'm afraid leads me to stereotype a bit. My experience of blocked overtakes is either you cane it to get past, or you give up and pull back in. I simply can't picture responding to a blocked overtake by gently accelerating on the wrong side of an island; and if there was minimal clearance when the BMW started to accelerate to 60-70 mph, then I can't see how you would end up in front cruising at 45.

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
tenpenceshort said:
This is going to sound patronising, for which I apologise; you sound very much like I did at your age. At 23, back in 2002, I had a civic type-r, a fuel card and the open road to attack.

According to me, every piece of bad driving I did was either justified 'because', or it was the other drivers' fault.

I knew how to pass the attitude teat, so I was pulled over for driving too quickly a few times, but prosecuted (too) little.

With the greatest of respect, it's now time to reassess your driving, OP. It took a prison sentence for me to learn my lesson. I sincerely hope it doesn't take you such a commitment.
Oh no I fully understand what I've done. And it's been booked in to have an electrical issue fixed before sale.

I'm at the wrong point in my life for it's responsibilities as a car, power and speed wise. Thinking I'm invincible etc.

I've not dismissed me being in the wrong, just wanted to not have it misconstrued when I've read the comment.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
...

...what I went around was a traffic island relatively close to the start of the road. With oncoming traffic etc easily viewable.

...
If that isn't trying to excuse what you did by suggesting that it wasn't dangerous, what is it it?

Also, did the BMW slow to 25 mph or almost stop? There is a big difference. If this whole story is not made up and you do indeed possess a car and a driving licence, can you try to be a bit more consistent? If you flap about like this in Court, things will not go well for you; but they don't look likely to go well anyway. If you receive a summons, I would contact agtlaw and, subject to his expert advice, think about preparing a guilty plea and some attempt at mitigation.

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Mave said:
Not trying to stereotype at all based on age or car. But the story laid out I'm afraid leads me to stereotype a bit. My experience of blocked overtakes is either you cane it to get past, or you give up and pull back in. I simply can't picture responding to a blocked overtake by gently accelerating on the wrong side of an island; and if there was minimal clearance when the BMW started to accelerate to 60-70 mph, then I can't see how you would end up in front cruising at 45.
As explained in another post 60-70 was a guesstimate to invoke the sense it caught up quickly

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Not wishing to worry you but a friend of mine received 2 weeks behind bars at Norwich prison and a ban for overtaking on the wrong side of a crossing.

Insurance was then astronomical for his works van (once the driving ban had run out) and he says he did nothing but stay in his cell and count down the hours. God knows what case the police presented and the judge must have been in an exceptionally bad mood and looking to make an example.

Still, I'm sure you'll be fine.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
S3Ad said:
Oh no I fully understand what I've done. And it's been booked in to have an electrical issue fixed before sale.

I'm at the wrong point in my life for it's responsibilities as a car, power and speed wise. Thinking I'm invincible etc.

I've not dismissed me being in the wrong, just wanted to not have it misconstrued when I've read the comment.
Good stuff.

The most helpful thing I can say, is that one of the better motoring lawyers in Yorkshire has posted on this thread (AGTlaw). I suggest you invest in a phone call to him (google it, he's based in Leeds) once you receive something through the post and take the advice you're given. It might save you a lot of time and money.

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
If that isn't trying to excuse what you did by suggesting that it wasn't dangerous, what is it it?

Also, did the BMW slow to 25 mph or almost stop? There is a big difference. If this whole story is not made up and you do indeed possess a car and a driving licence, can you try to be a bit more consistent? If you flap about like this in Court, things will not go well for you; but they don't look likely to go well anyway. If you receive a summons, I would contact agtlaw and, subject to his expert advice, think about preparing a guilty plea and some attempt at mitigation.
I didn't meant to offend/ upset you. Have valued your input.

I just wanted to correct the statement about a roundabout.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
You haven't offended or upset me at all, but I think that either this whole thread is a troll tale, or you have a problem with your attitude to driving.

S3Ad

Original Poster:

35 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
You haven't offended or upset me at all, but I think that either this whole thread is a troll tale, or you have a problem with your attitude to driving.
I can assure you it's an attitude problem. And a lot of other issues, meaning I know I don't need the pressures of a car right now. And well, plainly not in the mind to have one currently.


anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Don't be too gloomy. Look at what happened and its consequences as an opportunity to learn. In the event, no one was injured. Maybe sign up for some advanced driver training. I did when I was a silly yoof (with a car that exceeded my skill level, to make matters worse).