Failure to vacate after completion
Discussion
Tsk! Ask the vendor what's up rather than ask a bunch of anonymous dweebs on an internet car forum? Perish the thought!
You can of course damage your own property, but things might get messy if the police were to be called. They won't want to take a view on contracts and such, and might take the default option of siding with the person apparently in occupation of the house (or arrest both parties for breach of the peace, or whatever, but, as I said, messy).
You can of course damage your own property, but things might get messy if the police were to be called. They won't want to take a view on contracts and such, and might take the default option of siding with the person apparently in occupation of the house (or arrest both parties for breach of the peace, or whatever, but, as I said, messy).
Breadvan72 said:
The police would never give prior sanction to the intended use of force. If you said that you intended to go to a place and use force against someone there, any sensible officer (ie not one from South Yorkshire) would regard that as a threatened breach of the peace.
Care to bet on that?I've had officers from Suffolk and Essex both confirm that individuals can be removed by reasonable force. They also agreed to attend if I wished to ensure that the other person did not fight back, and they would be arrested if they did.
Jasandjules said:
Care to bet on that?
I've had officers from Suffolk and Essex both confirm that individuals can be removed by reasonable force. They also agreed to attend if I wished to ensure that the other person did not fight back, and they would be arrested if they did.
If still in force, s.6 of the Criminal Law Act 1977 makes it an offence to use or threaten violence to gain entry into a property if you know there are people inside who oppose that entry.I've had officers from Suffolk and Essex both confirm that individuals can be removed by reasonable force. They also agreed to attend if I wished to ensure that the other person did not fight back, and they would be arrested if they did.
Being a protected intending occupier (see s.12a of the same act) would negate the offence, however it would require the current occupiers to have been trespassers when they entered the property, which is not the case here.
This happened to me two weeks ago, admitted only for 7 hours, but I was still wasting a day off waiting for them.
It actually helped a bit - they were planning on leaving loads of crap in the garden and garage, and I wouldn't let them leave until they'd taken it all.
We completed at 10am, they asked to have until 1pm. I went round there 1pm, he wanted another hour. I went round at 2pm and they were having lunch in my house. At this point I became less calm. They eventually left just after 5pm.
In reality, there was nothing I could do. I had the keys from the agent so I took possession, but I couldn't really do much to force them to leave, other than chuck the stuff on the driveway.... it didn't come to that.
It actually helped a bit - they were planning on leaving loads of crap in the garden and garage, and I wouldn't let them leave until they'd taken it all.
We completed at 10am, they asked to have until 1pm. I went round there 1pm, he wanted another hour. I went round at 2pm and they were having lunch in my house. At this point I became less calm. They eventually left just after 5pm.
In reality, there was nothing I could do. I had the keys from the agent so I took possession, but I couldn't really do much to force them to leave, other than chuck the stuff on the driveway.... it didn't come to that.
tenpenceshort said:
If still in force, s.6 of the Criminal Law Act 1977 makes it an offence to use or threaten violence to gain entry into a property if you know there are people inside who oppose that entry.
Being a protected intending occupier (see s.12a of the same act) would negate the offence, however it would require the current occupiers to have been trespassers when they entered the property, which is not the case here.
What if entry is gained without violence, but you use reasonable force to remove someone who is trespassing on what is now your property?Being a protected intending occupier (see s.12a of the same act) would negate the offence, however it would require the current occupiers to have been trespassers when they entered the property, which is not the case here.
Ok, so you're all nicey nicey then, once inside, it all goes Charles Bronson. Police are called, allegation assault, and they arrive to find upset present occupier next to shut door outside house, you inside. Face of it seems a civil dispute over vacation of the property (none of our business, sir) and assaulted occupier. House full of present occupier's possessions.
Answers on the back of a postcard; who do you think the Police will want to remove from the house and talk to you without benefit of biscuits?
Of course, you could call BIB beforehand and request to prevent breach of peace, except Police cant help you gain entry (present occupier not entered as trespasser, no power) and are likely to deal with you rather than occupier if and when you begin turfing them out.
Answers on the back of a postcard; who do you think the Police will want to remove from the house and talk to you without benefit of biscuits?
Of course, you could call BIB beforehand and request to prevent breach of peace, except Police cant help you gain entry (present occupier not entered as trespasser, no power) and are likely to deal with you rather than occupier if and when you begin turfing them out.
tenpenceshort said:
Ok, so you're all nicey nicey then, once inside, it all goes Charles Bronson. Police are called, allegation assault, and they arrive to find upset present occupier next to shut door outside house, you inside. Face of it seems a civil dispute over vacation of the property (none of our business, sir) and assaulted occupier. House full of present occupier's possessions.
Hide any photos, then say: "Hello officer, I don't know who this man is, he started banging on the door after we moved in and unpacked. You can call my solicitor to confirm it's my house. Could you remove him from our property please"Then eBay his stuff.
When I bough a house my solicitor woukdn't release funds until he knew the property had been vacated and keys were with the othrr parties agents.
I would also like to know how the OP got on, myself I would have tried to cancel the transaction and rented somewhere till i found another place and sued for the cost.
I would also like to know how the OP got on, myself I would have tried to cancel the transaction and rented somewhere till i found another place and sued for the cost.
tenpenceshort said:
Ok, so you're all nicey nicey then, once inside, it all goes Charles Bronson. Police are called, allegation assault, and they arrive to find upset present occupier next to shut door outside house, you inside. Face of it seems a civil dispute over vacation of the property (none of our business, sir) and assaulted occupier. House full of present occupier's possessions.
Answers on the back of a postcard; who do you think the Police will want to remove from the house and talk to you without benefit of biscuits?
Of course, you could call BIB beforehand and request to prevent breach of peace, except Police cant help you gain entry (present occupier not entered as trespasser, no power) and are likely to deal with you rather than occupier if and when you begin turfing them out.
I don't see why. The law is on my side. I am quite capable of using minimal force to ensure compliance. If I use reasonable force to remove a trespasser I would expect the police to realise that I had not done anything wrong. I would rather face the very remote possibility of police action than face almost certain animal cruelty allegations if my menagerie have nowhere to bed down for the night.Answers on the back of a postcard; who do you think the Police will want to remove from the house and talk to you without benefit of biscuits?
Of course, you could call BIB beforehand and request to prevent breach of peace, except Police cant help you gain entry (present occupier not entered as trespasser, no power) and are likely to deal with you rather than occupier if and when you begin turfing them out.
XCP said:
I don't see why. The law is on my side. I am quite capable of using minimal force to ensure compliance. If I use reasonable force to remove a trespasser I would expect the police to realise that I had not done anything wrong. I would rather face the very remote possibility of police action than face almost certain animal cruelty allegations if my menagerie have nowhere to bed down for the night.
Except that, on the ground, who is to say they're trespassers? They haven't broken in, the house id full of their possessions, and, even if the police are willing to review all the documents, whether or not you'd agreed for them to stay extra after completion for some reason is a he-said she-said contractural matter.In the meantime, they have a possible (from their perspective) assault happening in front of them which they're required to act on.
Variomatic said:
Except that, on the ground, who is to say they're trespassers?
They are on your property (you own it and can prove that) - they have no contractual right to be there (no tenancy agreement). You ask them to move off. I would suspect the police will be content enough with that.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff