Failure to vacate after completion

Failure to vacate after completion

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Discussion

LongLiveTazio

Original Poster:

2,714 posts

196 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Hullo,

Would appreciate some help from a solicitor/similar/Soovy etc.

I've completed on a house today. Completion date has been set for nigh-on two weeks. Vendor has been a bit funny over certain things in the past (sigh) and the estate agents have rung me to say that they don't have the keys as his removals van has 'broken down'. I won't go in to details but it's safe to assume this is bullst and he is stalling.

I've rung my solicitor and he's been good so far but informs me that the only thing I can realistically do is sue him for costs incurred, i.e. my own removals people being held up, or needing to stay in a hotel. I was informed that I cannot force him to leave as this would be an eviction (?) even though I technically own the house.

Thing is, how do I prevent him simply keeping hold of the keys for several days whilst he fannies around? I don't own his stuff, even though vacant possession was agreed, but presumably I physically own the house keys, so it wouldn't be unfair for me to demand those and then allow him access at times convenient for me instead of him?

Cheers.

RG63AMG

157 posts

123 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
its your house FFFS!! wait until he goes out, " Find " a broken window / door let yourself in same window / door ( to make sure there are no vandals ect in ) change the locks and bung his carp out or if your feeling nice tell him exactly when he can pick it up or outside it will be!!

CYMR0

3,940 posts

199 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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So your advice is to carry out an illegal eviction in the exact way which the OP's solicitor has advised he shouldn't.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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You could seek an injunction but by the time you get one the vendor will probably have moved out, and you may indeed be confined to a financial remedy.

It is now a criminal offence to squat in residential premises, but I cannot recall and CBA to check whether there is a limited form of get out for someone who formerly had lawful possession of a property and stays on unlawfully. It would not surprise me if there is. Look it up in the Protection of Freedoms Act if you like.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
You could seek an injunction but by the time you get one the vendor will probably have moved out, and you may indeed be confined to a financial remedy.

It is now a criminal offence to squat in residential premises, but I cannot recall and CBA to check whether there is a limited form of get out for someone who formerly had lawful possession of a property and stays on unlawfully. It would not surprise me if there is. Look it up in the Protection of Freedoms Act if you like.
It was LASPO that introduced the offence, and you're quite right about provisions protecting those who entered the property legitimately. There would be no squatting offence here.

EW109

290 posts

139 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
The new provisions in relation to squatters are in section 144 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, not the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (don't you just love these catchy short titles?).

Curiously, although section 144 excludes from its scope a person who holds over after the end of a lease (section 144(2)), it does not exclude a vendor who wrongly remains in possession after completion. Given the way that section 144(1) is cast, it is at least arguable that such a vendor is committing an offence once he re-enters after the time at which he ought to have surrendered possession to the purchaser has passed, because that entry is (as against the purchaser) an entry as a trespasser.

G-Rich

209 posts

213 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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This happened to me when moving into our current house - I basically camped in the agents and shouted alot - keys turned up about 4pm. (about now - hope this works for you also)

Really hope you get it sorted - given the agent hell - they are the responsible for your relationship with the vendor?


Alternatively - go to the house - knock on the door, when it is opened, step inside. The current occupant can (surely) in no way force you to leave your house.


Edit to add - apologies for pub lawyerness of above post - when I was in the OPs position, I remember how awful it felt.

Edited by G-Rich on Friday 29th August 16:04

Hol

8,356 posts

199 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Make sure you take meter readings today for Gas and Electric supply with a 3rd party witness present(estate agent should be willing under the circumstance).

Anything on top of that reading is his/hers to pay - so long as you can prove it to the satisfaction of the energy company.






Hol

8,356 posts

199 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
RG63AMG said:
its your house FFFS!! wait until he goes out, " Find " a broken window / door let yourself in same window / door ( to make sure there are no vandals ect in ) change the locks and bung his carp out or if your feeling nice tell him exactly when he can pick it up or outside it will be!!
What do people think the Police reponse would be if the OP 'moved in' whilst the vendor was out and claimed squatters rights?


hman

7,487 posts

193 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Honestly grow a pair, break in and then call the police and tell them there is an intruder in YOUR house.

essayer

9,009 posts

193 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Surely no vacant possession means they've breached the contract ?

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
EW109 said:
The new provisions in relation to squatters are in section 144 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, not the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (don't you just love these catchy short titles?).

Curiously, although section 144 excludes from its scope a person who holds over after the end of a lease (section 144(2)), it does not exclude a vendor who wrongly remains in possession after completion. Given the way that section 144(1) is cast, it is at least arguable that such a vendor is committing an offence once he re-enters after the time at which he ought to have surrendered possession to the purchaser has passed, because that entry is (as against the purchaser) an entry as a trespasser.
In the current position the occupier was not a trespasser when they entered the building (when they certainly had sufficient licence to do so). I think your reading of the legislation is wrong in this regard (otherwise every person who for whatever reason could not leave on the agreed date to the chagrin of the purchaser would be committing a criminal offence, which would be ridiculous).

Lurking Lawyer

4,534 posts

224 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
essayer said:
Surely no vacant possession means they've breached the contract ?
That's not in question. The issue is what, practically, can the OP do about it?

A claim in damages isn't especially helpful when the OP is sitting with a removal van full of his stuff waiting to get into the property.

The law isn't especially helpful here, for the reasons Breaders has already pointed out. The OP can consider some sort of self-help but that's rather distinct to what he can do as a matter of law.

OP, I feel for you. When I bought my first house, the vendor was still moving her crap out at 8pm, despite having been saying since 1pm when keys had been released that she was "nearly finished" and "would be done in 10 minutes". It's immensely frustrating but in practice there's not a lot you can (legally) do.

Whether the vendor would have the presence of mind to start screaming about his squatters rights etc, if you forced the issue and got into the property, is a bit of a gamble. Faced with that, and with the risk of a breach of the peace, it's entirely possible that they would tell you to leave and to take it up through the courts. "That's a civil matter, sir....."

Good luck getting it sorted.

CYMR0

3,940 posts

199 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
essayer said:
Surely no vacant possession means they've breached the contract ?
Unquestionably it does, but the question is then - what is the remedy?

Clearly all losses flowing naturally from the breach are recoverable in principle - so additional storage, transport and accommodation costs are a minimum. Loss of annual leave and therefore the ability to redecorate or unpack might be recoverable as well. However if the vendor is supposed to be moving out because they can't afford the mortgage and are going into rented accommodation, that doesn't help the OP much - the bank has its money on the old mortgage but the old owner still has the home.

So the goal has to be to get the old owner out as quickly as possible, and the question is - what remedies are available, without committing an offence (e.g., an illegal eviction).

Defcon5

6,159 posts

190 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Can you turn the utilities off externally?

EW109

290 posts

139 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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In addition, it might be possible to invoke the provisions of Part II of the Criminal Law Act 1977 (as amended) so as to give the police a power of arrest, on the ground that the OP is a protected intending occupier (as defined by s 12A) - although this requires rather convoluted procedure, including a statement to be made before a JP or commissioner for oaths.



s3fella

10,524 posts

186 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Can you serve them with a notice that it is £500 a night to stay?

What about just going around and finding out from the guy what is going on? If he is in a genuine situation, then maybe you can work something out, if he is just being a nob, at least you know and can treat him accordingly.

EW109

290 posts

139 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
tenpenceshort said:
In the current position the occupier was not a trespasser when they entered the building (when they certainly had sufficient licence to do so). I think your reading of the legislation is wrong in this regard (otherwise every person who for whatever reason could not leave on the agreed date to the chagrin of the purchaser would be committing a criminal offence, which would be ridiculous).
We need to distinguish between two situations.

1. The vendor fails to complete. In this situation, the purchaser is left with no alternative but an action for specific performance, and the vendor is not a trespasser.

2. The vendor completes (he delivers an executed form TR1), but refuses to vacate. In that situation, the vendor's continued occupation is a trespass as against the purchaser. The purchaser is entitled to a possession order, as of right, on that basis. I cannot see why, if the vendor re-enters, his doing so as a trespasser should not arguably be criminal, given the way that s 144 works (it is specifically directed at trespassers - and specifically excludes re-entering tenants who hold over, but not re-entering vendors post-completion).

It is to be noted that problems usually arise from vendors who, having contracted to complete on or before a particular date, fail to do so (to which no criminal liability could attach); contrast the unusual position where a vendor does complete, but then fails to vacate.

Thus I do not think your point has force: this is not the (fairly common) situation of someone failing to complete, but of a person who, having completed, fails to vacate.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
EW109 said:
The new provisions in relation to squatters are in section 144 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, not the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (don't you just love these catchy short titles?).

...
My bad! Just shows that I remember bog all about which bit of nonsense is which. I can remember all sorts of irrelevant tosh, but nothing useful.

scdan4

1,299 posts

159 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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Can you not just move in as well.

As said above, knock on the door, foot in the door, get in.

Then let your mates in.

Then have a house warming do. Move stuff about. No sleep for squatters.

(If you own the house, and are not evicting / throwing out the incumbant, who really shouldn't be there surely you'd be ok?)

Sounds very st. I'd be seriously narked.