Recording Police actions

Author
Discussion

Elroy Blue

8,687 posts

192 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Bigends said:
Exactly - you cant detain someone just in order to go fishing for offences - hence my original query about being locked in the back of a police car and not being free to leave - the cause of all this hoo haa and pensioner bashing!
When has asking someone to sit in the back of your car become detaining them and locking them in the back.

Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep. That paranoia must be terrible.

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
tenpenceshort said:
Bigends said:
Exactly - you cant detain someone just in order to go fishing for offences - hence my original query about being locked in the back of a police car and not being free to leave - the cause of all this hoo haa and pensioner bashing!
I think on balance, the need to have the childlocks on, and the obvious impracticality of having to turn them on/off for each and every situation, versus the minor inconvenience of having to be let out of the Police car (at any time you request if not being detained), means it's not worth sweating over.
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.



Red 4

10,744 posts

187 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car. Most people are reasonable though.

But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.

If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.


Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car.

But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.

If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.
That was the gist of the thread. I'm in the back of the car - Ive provided all correct verified details - and should then be in a position to get straight out of the car and leave without further ado - the same as if i'd never got in the car in the first place rather than the officer deciding when I can get out and leave - thats all

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Red 4 said:
Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car.

But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.

If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.
That was the gist of the thread. I'm in the back of the car - Ive provided all correct verified details - and should then be in a position to get straight out of the car and leave without further ado - the same as if i'd never got in the car in the first place rather than the officer deciding when I can get out and leave - thats all
And the last three pages have been reassuring you that you can do exactly that. Which is, in all honesty something you would no doubt know after 40+ years of policing.

Red 4

10,744 posts

187 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
And the last three pages have been reassuring you that you can do exactly that. Which is, in all honesty something you would no doubt know after 40+ years of policing.
You'd know it after 40 minutes/ hours/ days of operational policing to be honest.

Perhaps it's all become a little hazy to Bigends.

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
And the last three pages have been reassuring you that you can do exactly that. Which is, in all honesty something you would no doubt know after 40+ years of policing.
You'd know it after 40 minutes/ hours/ days of operational policing to be honest.

Perhaps it's all become a little hazy to Bigends.
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'

or have I misread

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'

or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.

photosnob

1,339 posts

118 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Bigends - why don't you post a photo of you LSGC medal, next to a a piece of paper with your username. That should stop all this silliness with people insinuating you weren't really a police officer.

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'

or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
Example please - youve processed me for what youve stopped me for - then what

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'

or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
Example please - youve processed me for what youve stopped me for - then what
I stop you for speeding. 36 in a 30 to be precise. I gain all your details report you for summons. You then say, right, I have had enough now, I am leaving. Please open your door so can alight.
I say, "I am sorry Mr Ends, but I still need to question you about the kilo of Skunk you had in the boot of your car. Will you remain with me in order that I can sufficiently gain the evidence I require via a contemporaneous and voluntary interview?"

You reply "I am sorry Mr Spitty, but I wish to leave now and will no longer remain with you."

At this point I point out the necessity to arrest you, and leave the child locks on. You then go to the police station.

Bigends

5,418 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
photosnob said:
Bigends - why don't you post a photo of you LSGC medal, next to a a piece of paper with your username. That should stop all this silliness with people insinuating you weren't really a police officer.
Jeez - thats a new one - its in my sock draw with my Jubilee medal - i'll hunt it out if that will satsify Constables Spitfire and Elroy of the Pistonheadshire constabulary ( dont like being questioned unit)

Zoobeef

6,004 posts

158 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
I think what he means is there is no scope to change your mind. We are aloud to answer your questions in our own car or stood at the side of the road but once in the back of your car we can't decide that we'd rather be back on the roadside.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Example 2.

You attend voluntarily at the police station in order to answer in relation to the kilo of Cocaine you had stuffed in your pants.

Initially we get on great. Speak about our conversations on SP&L and generally have a nice chat. Interview starts and I begin my questions. You suddenly realise that it is 00:00 hours and Hollyoaks X-Rated is on. You tell me you wish to leave.
Unfortunately I am still needing to ask you questions about the Coke. You get up to leave. I try and convince you to stay voluntarily but Hollyoaks is calling. You try and leave. I arrest you in order to continue the interview and obtain the necessary evidence by questioning.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Zoobeef said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
I think what he means is there is no scope to change your mind. We are aloud to answer your questions in our own car or stood at the side of the road but once in the back of your car we can't decide that we'd rather be back on the roadside.
As long as I didn't think you were going to make a run for it, and that you and I were safe from traffic etc, I couldn't care less where the stopped person stands.

Eclassy

1,201 posts

122 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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If you have been unfairly targeted and have the means to do so, you'd be extremely stupid not to do so.

Elroy Blue

8,687 posts

192 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all

Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
If after 40 years in the job, you didn't already know the answer to that, then I dread to think what office you were buried in all that time.



Bigends said:
Jeez - thats a new one - its in my sock draw with my Jubilee medal - i'll hunt it out if that will satsify Constables Spitfire and Elroy of the Pistonheadshire constabulary ( dont like being questioned unit)
I think it's more 'answering stupid questions from someone who already should know the answer and that someone then turns a simple situation into something sinister' unit.

Matt Harper

6,617 posts

201 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
My daughter is a US Sheriffs Deputy and was trained to assume that ALL of her actions/interactions while wearing the badge are being recorded - and she's totally fine with that, as are most cops, I suspect.
What does tend to change the dynamic somewhat is when some people, invariably dirt-bag scum low-life, who have been busted, then stick their phone/camera in the cops face and then get all confrontational in the belief that recording their resistance, not compliance and sometimes plain aggression will afford them some kind of advantage.

PV7998

371 posts

134 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
For the Bigends bashers.....this is what he originally asked.....

Bigends said:
Just as a matter of interest when someones in the back of your car voluntarily for a traffic matter- are the child locks on - are they free to leave (as you'll of course have told them)- or do they have to wait for you to finish before you let them out?

I go back to the example of the 25 year old woman I know who became frightened and tearful in the back of a Police car.....of course she could leave as soon as she felt like it....the trouble was she was too scared and too emotional to actually ask - and she's an intelligent respectable person.

Of course you average toe rag won't be in the least bit worried and will probably demand to be let out rather than ask........the trouble is that not everyone you stop is your average toe rag.

Eclassy

1,201 posts

122 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Quite a few cases in the US where the 'crimes' of the police have been found out because they were recorded.

1. Eric Garner
2. The man in a wheelchair shot in Dallas
3. Oscar Grant
4. CHP beaten down on a woman for jaywalking.