Recording Police actions
Discussion
Bigends said:
Exactly - you cant detain someone just in order to go fishing for offences - hence my original query about being locked in the back of a police car and not being free to leave - the cause of all this hoo haa and pensioner bashing!
When has asking someone to sit in the back of your car become detaining them and locking them in the back. Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep. That paranoia must be terrible.
tenpenceshort said:
Bigends said:
Exactly - you cant detain someone just in order to go fishing for offences - hence my original query about being locked in the back of a police car and not being free to leave - the cause of all this hoo haa and pensioner bashing!
I think on balance, the need to have the childlocks on, and the obvious impracticality of having to turn them on/off for each and every situation, versus the minor inconvenience of having to be let out of the Police car (at any time you request if not being detained), means it's not worth sweating over.Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car. Most people are reasonable though. But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.
If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.
Red 4 said:
Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car.But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.
If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.
Bigends said:
Red 4 said:
Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
You don't have to get into the police vehicle - you don't even need to get out of your car.But you can't leave when you choose - you are required to provide your details.
If you refuse or become obstructive you can be arrested.
Mk3Spitfire said:
And the last three pages have been reassuring you that you can do exactly that. Which is, in all honesty something you would no doubt know after 40+ years of policing.
You'd know it after 40 minutes/ hours/ days of operational policing to be honest.Perhaps it's all become a little hazy to Bigends.
Red 4 said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
And the last three pages have been reassuring you that you can do exactly that. Which is, in all honesty something you would no doubt know after 40+ years of policing.
You'd know it after 40 minutes/ hours/ days of operational policing to be honest.Perhaps it's all become a little hazy to Bigends.
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
Mk3Spitfire said:
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
Bigends said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Bigends said:
Folks -I do understand - really I do - its just the second part of the initial answer confused me and smacked of i'll let you go when I'm ready
'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.'Child locks are always on in my car. If they are voluntary, and decided they want to leave, I'll either let them out, or if the necessity and grounds are there, I'll arrest in order to carry on my need to interview. Just the same as in a police station.'
or have I misread
I say, "I am sorry Mr Ends, but I still need to question you about the kilo of Skunk you had in the boot of your car. Will you remain with me in order that I can sufficiently gain the evidence I require via a contemporaneous and voluntary interview?"
You reply "I am sorry Mr Spitty, but I wish to leave now and will no longer remain with you."
At this point I point out the necessity to arrest you, and leave the child locks on. You then go to the police station.
photosnob said:
Bigends - why don't you post a photo of you LSGC medal, next to a a piece of paper with your username. That should stop all this silliness with people insinuating you weren't really a police officer.
Jeez - thats a new one - its in my sock draw with my Jubilee medal - i'll hunt it out if that will satsify Constables Spitfire and Elroy of the Pistonheadshire constabulary ( dont like being questioned unit)Mk3Spitfire said:
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
I think what he means is there is no scope to change your mind. We are aloud to answer your questions in our own car or stood at the side of the road but once in the back of your car we can't decide that we'd rather be back on the roadside.Example 2.
You attend voluntarily at the police station in order to answer in relation to the kilo of Cocaine you had stuffed in your pants.
Initially we get on great. Speak about our conversations on SP&L and generally have a nice chat. Interview starts and I begin my questions. You suddenly realise that it is 00:00 hours and Hollyoaks X-Rated is on. You tell me you wish to leave.
Unfortunately I am still needing to ask you questions about the Coke. You get up to leave. I try and convince you to stay voluntarily but Hollyoaks is calling. You try and leave. I arrest you in order to continue the interview and obtain the necessary evidence by questioning.
You attend voluntarily at the police station in order to answer in relation to the kilo of Cocaine you had stuffed in your pants.
Initially we get on great. Speak about our conversations on SP&L and generally have a nice chat. Interview starts and I begin my questions. You suddenly realise that it is 00:00 hours and Hollyoaks X-Rated is on. You tell me you wish to leave.
Unfortunately I am still needing to ask you questions about the Coke. You get up to leave. I try and convince you to stay voluntarily but Hollyoaks is calling. You try and leave. I arrest you in order to continue the interview and obtain the necessary evidence by questioning.
Zoobeef said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
You have not misread. That is exactly what I meant.
I think what he means is there is no scope to change your mind. We are aloud to answer your questions in our own car or stood at the side of the road but once in the back of your car we can't decide that we'd rather be back on the roadside.Bigends said:
Agreed. All I asked initially was could I get out and leave when I chose. If it had been a straight 'Yes, of course you can - i'd let you straight out' - job done- question answered.
If after 40 years in the job, you didn't already know the answer to that, then I dread to think what office you were buried in all that time.Bigends said:
Jeez - thats a new one - its in my sock draw with my Jubilee medal - i'll hunt it out if that will satsify Constables Spitfire and Elroy of the Pistonheadshire constabulary ( dont like being questioned unit)
I think it's more 'answering stupid questions from someone who already should know the answer and that someone then turns a simple situation into something sinister' unit.My daughter is a US Sheriffs Deputy and was trained to assume that ALL of her actions/interactions while wearing the badge are being recorded - and she's totally fine with that, as are most cops, I suspect.
What does tend to change the dynamic somewhat is when some people, invariably dirt-bag scum low-life, who have been busted, then stick their phone/camera in the cops face and then get all confrontational in the belief that recording their resistance, not compliance and sometimes plain aggression will afford them some kind of advantage.
What does tend to change the dynamic somewhat is when some people, invariably dirt-bag scum low-life, who have been busted, then stick their phone/camera in the cops face and then get all confrontational in the belief that recording their resistance, not compliance and sometimes plain aggression will afford them some kind of advantage.
For the Bigends bashers.....this is what he originally asked.....
I go back to the example of the 25 year old woman I know who became frightened and tearful in the back of a Police car.....of course she could leave as soon as she felt like it....the trouble was she was too scared and too emotional to actually ask - and she's an intelligent respectable person.
Of course you average toe rag won't be in the least bit worried and will probably demand to be let out rather than ask........the trouble is that not everyone you stop is your average toe rag.
Bigends said:
Just as a matter of interest when someones in the back of your car voluntarily for a traffic matter- are the child locks on - are they free to leave (as you'll of course have told them)- or do they have to wait for you to finish before you let them out?
I go back to the example of the 25 year old woman I know who became frightened and tearful in the back of a Police car.....of course she could leave as soon as she felt like it....the trouble was she was too scared and too emotional to actually ask - and she's an intelligent respectable person.
Of course you average toe rag won't be in the least bit worried and will probably demand to be let out rather than ask........the trouble is that not everyone you stop is your average toe rag.
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