A friend's bizzare Domestic Violence issue, advice needed
Discussion
Hi there
After your collective thoughts about a predicament a good friend of mine has found himself in, I will try to be brief…
As a quick background to the story, he has been in a relationship (not married) with a woman for around 12 years. It has been rather turbulent at times, mainly due to her utter nutjob tendancies… I know her very well and she is the complete embodiment of “the mental.” She left her former husband and two children for my friend and he has had her living with him/supporting her financially ever since. She has had no real full time employment in this time, only the ocassional stint at a restaurant or pub before she rapidly falls out with the managment (its always everyone else and never her) and leaves. She contributes nothing financially and does not own the house or ay part of it whatsoever, merely lives there rent free.
5 weeks ago, after yet another heated argument, the police were called by a neighbour after it spilled out onto the street. My friend has admitted to forcefully pushing her out of his front door, throwing a very valuable watch of his at her and shouting “pawn this and get out of my life,” When the police arrived he was arrested as this woman, who was yet again completely drunk, claimed he had assaulted her. He wasn’t charged with anything, but was subsequently told that whilst there was no evidence to charge him with anything, he was to be placed on a Domestic Violence Protection Order (DVPO?) for a peroid of 28 days (he volunteered this amount to allow this woman time to leave the house she doesn’t own once and for all.)
During the 28 days which ended on Friday, my friend abided to it by the letter. He did not return to his home as he was told, and did not go anywhere near this woman, despite it being HIS house from where he ran a business. This woman was well aware of his restrictions, yet turned up on numerous ocassions at his daytime place of business, ranting and raving, crying and begging, hurling abuse etc. She also rang his place of work leaving messages numerous times, goading him into meeting with her, knowing he wasn’t allowed to. She even rang me numerous times, as his friend, doing the same. Utterly mental.
On Friday, when the order ended, my friend was looking forward to being able to return home, hopefuly with her finally gone, and continue with his life having had on sleep on sofas, in B&Bs etc for a month. However on Friday morning, a man came to his shop and served him with a letter from the Family Court, stating that this woman had now taken out a “Non Molestation order” against him, because she is terrified that he would return home and “abuse her” after his DVPO ended. Attached is a long statement about the many years of abuse she suffered by him prior to this incident… a statement of which I know to be absolutely full of lies and fiction, as I was there personally for many of the alledged incident and they simply did not happen!!!
The papers state that the Non Molestation order is also to be dealt with next week with her application for Occupancy of his house!! One which doesn’t own and never has done!!
So he is still not allowed into his home while she sits there, not working, while he continues to pay the bills and mortage.
What I want to ask is how on earth can this woman apply for these orders (which are rightly there to protect abused women) by claiming that they will protect her from his abuse (which doesn’t happen) when she is the one who has actively stalked my friend, in a time when we was not allowed to be near her! She has blatently lied in her statement, and is also abusing a court system of protection, because she needs a roof over her head (and knows as long as my friend cannot return home and have her removed, she will have one) and not because she is worried about being beaten. And how on earth can she remain in house or claim occupancy of it when she is in no way financially or legally connected to it?!
My friend is receiving legal advice and is attending the court next week (which will be 7 weeks after he was last allowed home) but what do you think will be the outcome of this? He is not a violent or abuse man whatsoever… I am just utter shocked that he a woman can just create a web of fiction, abuse a court system for her own gain, and prevent a man from returning to his own home whitout even having a chance to answer what he is acused of doing. The have no children, are not married, have no financial ties and the hosue is his entirely. She has merely lived with him for 12 years, on and off.
Will this be thrown out?
Thanks
After your collective thoughts about a predicament a good friend of mine has found himself in, I will try to be brief…
As a quick background to the story, he has been in a relationship (not married) with a woman for around 12 years. It has been rather turbulent at times, mainly due to her utter nutjob tendancies… I know her very well and she is the complete embodiment of “the mental.” She left her former husband and two children for my friend and he has had her living with him/supporting her financially ever since. She has had no real full time employment in this time, only the ocassional stint at a restaurant or pub before she rapidly falls out with the managment (its always everyone else and never her) and leaves. She contributes nothing financially and does not own the house or ay part of it whatsoever, merely lives there rent free.
5 weeks ago, after yet another heated argument, the police were called by a neighbour after it spilled out onto the street. My friend has admitted to forcefully pushing her out of his front door, throwing a very valuable watch of his at her and shouting “pawn this and get out of my life,” When the police arrived he was arrested as this woman, who was yet again completely drunk, claimed he had assaulted her. He wasn’t charged with anything, but was subsequently told that whilst there was no evidence to charge him with anything, he was to be placed on a Domestic Violence Protection Order (DVPO?) for a peroid of 28 days (he volunteered this amount to allow this woman time to leave the house she doesn’t own once and for all.)
During the 28 days which ended on Friday, my friend abided to it by the letter. He did not return to his home as he was told, and did not go anywhere near this woman, despite it being HIS house from where he ran a business. This woman was well aware of his restrictions, yet turned up on numerous ocassions at his daytime place of business, ranting and raving, crying and begging, hurling abuse etc. She also rang his place of work leaving messages numerous times, goading him into meeting with her, knowing he wasn’t allowed to. She even rang me numerous times, as his friend, doing the same. Utterly mental.
On Friday, when the order ended, my friend was looking forward to being able to return home, hopefuly with her finally gone, and continue with his life having had on sleep on sofas, in B&Bs etc for a month. However on Friday morning, a man came to his shop and served him with a letter from the Family Court, stating that this woman had now taken out a “Non Molestation order” against him, because she is terrified that he would return home and “abuse her” after his DVPO ended. Attached is a long statement about the many years of abuse she suffered by him prior to this incident… a statement of which I know to be absolutely full of lies and fiction, as I was there personally for many of the alledged incident and they simply did not happen!!!
The papers state that the Non Molestation order is also to be dealt with next week with her application for Occupancy of his house!! One which doesn’t own and never has done!!
So he is still not allowed into his home while she sits there, not working, while he continues to pay the bills and mortage.
What I want to ask is how on earth can this woman apply for these orders (which are rightly there to protect abused women) by claiming that they will protect her from his abuse (which doesn’t happen) when she is the one who has actively stalked my friend, in a time when we was not allowed to be near her! She has blatently lied in her statement, and is also abusing a court system of protection, because she needs a roof over her head (and knows as long as my friend cannot return home and have her removed, she will have one) and not because she is worried about being beaten. And how on earth can she remain in house or claim occupancy of it when she is in no way financially or legally connected to it?!
My friend is receiving legal advice and is attending the court next week (which will be 7 weeks after he was last allowed home) but what do you think will be the outcome of this? He is not a violent or abuse man whatsoever… I am just utter shocked that he a woman can just create a web of fiction, abuse a court system for her own gain, and prevent a man from returning to his own home whitout even having a chance to answer what he is acused of doing. The have no children, are not married, have no financial ties and the hosue is his entirely. She has merely lived with him for 12 years, on and off.
Will this be thrown out?
Thanks
My brother had a similar situation to this. Except the house was rented. And they had a kid.
I won't give advice because I'm not qualified (and I'd be surprised if anyone on here did give advice if qualified without facts, and for a friend). However it didn't end well for my brother. She cleared out his account after having him arrested - I can be a violent nasty person, he isn't. I won't go into the details but it took years in family court, cafcass the whole works. She got legal aid with a barrister and a firm of solicitors he worked but couldn't afford a lawyer so did it alone. The best part was a few months ago he had a final hearing, for some reason her solicitors decided to send this order via a process server. He was at work when the guy tried to come 3 times. So they wrote to the court and he now has to pay nearly £300 in fees. He wrote to the court and got a letter back saying if he wants to discuss it he can pay £155 or something for a hearing.
If they have kids, or she has kids I fear this will not end well for him.
EDIT - just read the thing properly. If she has two kids living in his house and is alleging domestic violence your friend is f
ked. I've no ideas about the process, but from my experiences of dealing with the family court they are a bunch of complete jokers. I've managed to hold a level respect for both the authorities and the courts even when I've messed up. However the family court is another level - there is a reason why they do it in secret.
I won't give advice because I'm not qualified (and I'd be surprised if anyone on here did give advice if qualified without facts, and for a friend). However it didn't end well for my brother. She cleared out his account after having him arrested - I can be a violent nasty person, he isn't. I won't go into the details but it took years in family court, cafcass the whole works. She got legal aid with a barrister and a firm of solicitors he worked but couldn't afford a lawyer so did it alone. The best part was a few months ago he had a final hearing, for some reason her solicitors decided to send this order via a process server. He was at work when the guy tried to come 3 times. So they wrote to the court and he now has to pay nearly £300 in fees. He wrote to the court and got a letter back saying if he wants to discuss it he can pay £155 or something for a hearing.
If they have kids, or she has kids I fear this will not end well for him.
EDIT - just read the thing properly. If she has two kids living in his house and is alleging domestic violence your friend is f
ked. I've no ideas about the process, but from my experiences of dealing with the family court they are a bunch of complete jokers. I've managed to hold a level respect for both the authorities and the courts even when I've messed up. However the family court is another level - there is a reason why they do it in secret.Edited by photosnob on Monday 1st September 10:57
IANAL but from what I've seen on here the suggestion seems to be that it's not as clinical as "she doesn't own the house". If she has been contributing in other ways - upkeep, buying shopping, etc or enabling his career through taking on responsibilities he doesn't have time for, etc then there's a good chance she'll have some claim on the house.
If she has been in and out of his life and never held down a job just how has she contributed to the house. She may have bought some food occasionally or bought an ornament or two but this is hardly a contribution.
Sounds like your mate needs to lawyer up with a good one - get BV or similar to make a recommendation. Best outcome in court would be for you mate to be smartly dressed, polite, non confrontational, calm and don't interrupt - ever. Hopefully your lawyer can get her to show her mental traits and the judge may see through things.
Alternatively - how much equity is in the house - it might be worth paying her off a small share just to get rid of her.
Sounds like your mate needs to lawyer up with a good one - get BV or similar to make a recommendation. Best outcome in court would be for you mate to be smartly dressed, polite, non confrontational, calm and don't interrupt - ever. Hopefully your lawyer can get her to show her mental traits and the judge may see through things.
Alternatively - how much equity is in the house - it might be worth paying her off a small share just to get rid of her.
her children dont live in the house (she effectively "walked out" on them years ago) and she sees them rarely.. they are both mid-late 20's now.
She contribues nothing to the house apart from the odd food shop here and there. She isnt even on the electoral role as living there i'm told, because it has never been a permanent arrangement. They constantly split up and she comes back, and he lets her in as he feels a sense of responsibility after she left her family for him. No money to her name.
What im most astonished about is my friend has photographic evidence of her harrassing him and turning up at his work, and trying to meet with him when she knew he wasnt allowed, yet she is "terrified" of him and tells the court she needs an order to keep him away from her!! Thus meaning he cant go home and she can live there! Will the court not throw her claim out knowing this?
She contribues nothing to the house apart from the odd food shop here and there. She isnt even on the electoral role as living there i'm told, because it has never been a permanent arrangement. They constantly split up and she comes back, and he lets her in as he feels a sense of responsibility after she left her family for him. No money to her name.
What im most astonished about is my friend has photographic evidence of her harrassing him and turning up at his work, and trying to meet with him when she knew he wasnt allowed, yet she is "terrified" of him and tells the court she needs an order to keep him away from her!! Thus meaning he cant go home and she can live there! Will the court not throw her claim out knowing this?
elanfan said:
If she has been in and out of his life and never held down a job just how has she contributed to the house. She may have bought some food occasionally or bought an ornament or two but this is hardly a contribution.
Sounds like your mate needs to lawyer up with a good one - get BV or similar to make a recommendation. Best outcome in court would be for you mate to be smartly dressed, polite, non confrontational, calm and don't interrupt - ever. Hopefully your lawyer can get her to show her mental traits and the judge may see through things.
Alternatively - how much equity is in the house - it might be worth paying her off a small share just to get rid of her.
I agree - if I ever found myself in this position I'd be investing every penny I had and borrowing some more to get decent legal advice. If the ex is smart she will have had a free half an hour with every solicitor in the area so that the bloke won't be able to be represented by them. Sounds like your mate needs to lawyer up with a good one - get BV or similar to make a recommendation. Best outcome in court would be for you mate to be smartly dressed, polite, non confrontational, calm and don't interrupt - ever. Hopefully your lawyer can get her to show her mental traits and the judge may see through things.
Alternatively - how much equity is in the house - it might be worth paying her off a small share just to get rid of her.
The simple fact is this - she will have a lawyer (DV or alleged DV is one of the only ways to get legal aid for this stuff now - which amazingly is meaning more ladies have been physically and emotionally abused). And that lawyer will make her fully aware of her rights. If the house is nice and she was able to get an occupation order for a decent amount of time then it would be worth more than a token amount. Also he can't contact her with the non molestation order.
The system is completely broken when it comes to this stuff. I can't propose a better one, as women or men should not be battered or abused. However the system is so heavily to one side it's pretty sickening.
What you can do is cut off any sky tv or other none essential services. Trying to cut of the gas or electricity is going to look awful. But cutting of luxuries is a smart way off saving some money...
If the house is in negative equity I'd personally stop paying the mortgage and then live with a crap credit history for 6 years. Trust me it will be less painful than what the blokes mate is about to go through. If I was in that position I'd also stop paying all bills right now. But then I'd be a dick about it.
dudleybloke said:
Immediately stop all payments towards the house, all bills ect then sell up.
(This is probably useless advice but its what I would be doing)
Don’t do this. Bills are in his name so he would be the one that suffers. He could however call up and have a number of things cut off i.e. Sky, Internet, phone...(This is probably useless advice but its what I would be doing)
Why make her more comfortable than necessary?
PopsandBangs said:
her children dont live in the house (she effectively "walked out" on them years ago) and she sees them rarely.. they are both mid-late 20's now.
She contribues nothing to the house apart from the odd food shop here and there. She isnt even on the electoral role as living there i'm told, because it has never been a permanent arrangement. They constantly split up and she comes back, and he lets her in as he feels a sense of responsibility after she left her family for him. No money to her name.
What im most astonished about is my friend has photographic evidence of her harrassing him and turning up at his work, and trying to meet with him when she knew he wasnt allowed, yet she is "terrified" of him and tells the court she needs an order to keep him away from her!! Thus meaning he cant go home and she can live there! Will the court not throw her claim out knowing this?
Statements and witness statements to his solicitor straight away. She contribues nothing to the house apart from the odd food shop here and there. She isnt even on the electoral role as living there i'm told, because it has never been a permanent arrangement. They constantly split up and she comes back, and he lets her in as he feels a sense of responsibility after she left her family for him. No money to her name.
What im most astonished about is my friend has photographic evidence of her harrassing him and turning up at his work, and trying to meet with him when she knew he wasnt allowed, yet she is "terrified" of him and tells the court she needs an order to keep him away from her!! Thus meaning he cant go home and she can live there! Will the court not throw her claim out knowing this?
Oh and he won't get legal aid when they fully look into it. He will have an interim award. My brother got that and then had it taken away. They are now chasing him for that money.
This is after being accused of being a drug addict (took a test for cafcass), and someone who can't be trusted with his daughter. She is going on holiday with him for a week today... Some people (not women as some blokes are evil scum as well) will say anything to get what they want. They know how the system works and there are some scummy lawyers who will point them in the right direction to do whatever then want whilst still collecting the legal aid.
The police and the courts were not interested in him having his bank account cleared out. He didn't get one possession back, it was either needed for his daughter (50 inch tv I'd lent him...) or not there. Sadly I actually had some of my stuff there. I lost a canon 1d iv and a 24-70 and 70-200 worth about 5k in total, he'd asked to borrow it to take photos of his daughter (she was literally a few months old at the time). Again she couldn't find that. In these situations you are going to get done over.
with regards to keeps evidence of her misdeeds... he has photo/video evidence or her abusive visits to his shop, recordings of her voicemail messages asking to meet when she knows he was prohibited, and has logged each visit/contact from her with the police officer who dealt with him after his initial arrest. He also has the copies of texts she sent to me personally, abusing me for being on "his side" and also asking to arrange a meet etc
To any BiB here and as an update to the situation, not only is my friend still not allowed in his house, but we have recently discovered that several "reviews" have been written about his business on Yell.com and the like, advising people to avoid as he is a wifebeater/nicked for assaulting a woman/dangerous man etc. Can only have come from this mental womans side, and he only found out through customers trying to give him business... at least one of whom now has their reservations about using him/us. Im lost for words. Is there anything he can do?
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