Iphone4 Dead After 3 years

[JustinP1]

Greg66 said:

Three years is on any view a long time. The fact that many other people have iphones that have lasted this long suggests that at least in part the failure *may* be due to the way you've handled it. At least, if you were to go to a small claims court, that's what the retailer could fire at you.

This is where it comes down to the facts of the case.

An expensive electronic item, with few moving parts that has been well handled should last more than three years IMHO.

If you've dropped your phone, then clearly all bets are off!

It's been a number of years since I've had to look up case laws academically over this, however, I remember what I've said above to be adherent with case laws, the few that there were because so few of these cases end up going to trial.

Also if I remember rightly, the general zeitgeist surrounding interpretation of 'durable' in terms of the SoGA was that as time goes on and manufacturing quality increases so the bar as to what is acceptable now.

[anonymous-user]

JustinP1 said:

bompey said:

Not sure where you get 6 years from but best bet is to try selling as broken on ebay and get a new contract.

I would suggest it comes from the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

In short, an item should be 'sufficiently durable'.

The factors are what the item is, and its value. So, for example a £5.99 Casio would be seen differently to a Rolex if both died after 4 years for example.

There is a 6 year limit on which claims can be made, your claim is to the retailer in that the item was not durable, being a £500 item should last more than three years.

ETA - Before you scrap your phone. Currys last month repaired a 4 year old TV for me. For free.

Justin, love, sometimes you should leave it! You mostly talk sense, but there's a fair amount of woo in that one. The six year limitation period on a claim for breach of contract has nowt to do with the Sale of Goods Act. There is no requirement for a phone to last some set period of time. Three year old phone has worn out? I would say: get a new one. The OP has already decided to do this.

[Sheepshanks]

JustinP1 said:

The endgame is as I have said is court.

I've never had to go that far - I've managed to resolve every issue except for the iPhone by some combination the retailer/manufacturer.

I even got stone-walled by JohnLewis last year on a failed vacuum cleaner which had failed just out of warranty, but had only been in use for a few months. Absolutely "sod-off" attitude. Contacted the manufacturer - no problem, we'll send someone out to collect and repair it, which they did.

[JustinP1]

Breadvan72 said:

JustinP1 said:

bompey said:

Not sure where you get 6 years from but best bet is to try selling as broken on ebay and get a new contract.

I would suggest it comes from the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

In short, an item should be 'sufficiently durable'.

The factors are what the item is, and its value. So, for example a £5.99 Casio would be seen differently to a Rolex if both died after 4 years for example.

There is a 6 year limit on which claims can be made, your claim is to the retailer in that the item was not durable, being a £500 item should last more than three years.

ETA - Before you scrap your phone. Currys last month repaired a 4 year old TV for me. For free.

Justin, love, sometimes you should leave it! You mostly talk sense, but there's a fair amount of woo in that one. The six year limitation period on a claim for breach of contract has nowt to do with the Sale of Goods Act. There is no requirement for a phone to last some set period of time. Three year old phone has worn out? I would say: get a new one. The OP has already decided to do this.

BV - I know the source of the limitation, I was giving a condensed reason to the OP what the relevance of 6 years is in this case.

Also, I think I did make the definition that an item is not supposed to last a minimum of six years, just this is the maximum time that such a claim could be made.

Call me old fashioned but IMHO an expensive electronic item of £500 or more which has been used normally, not 'worn out' and has not been mistreated, dunked in water, or dropped should last more than three years. Should a 'reasonable person' see the same? I don't think the retailer would let it get to that.

My last experience with exactly this area was a five minute telephone call where a 4 year old TV was collected from my house and repaired, for free, subject to them not finding evidence of misuse. The other option they gave was for me to get my own independent report which they confirmed they would repair on the basis that it was an electrical fault as oppose to one which was cause by misuse, they would repair or refund, no more questions asked.

I should add that the two recent previous issues I've had were 3 year old Sky boxes being replaced, free of charge, as well as an Apple laptop battery of the same age.

I see no reason why the OP should be discouraged here - he's in with a shout.

[JustinP1]

Sheepshanks said:

JustinP1 said:

The endgame is as I have said is court.

I've never had to go that far - I've managed to resolve every issue except for the iPhone by some combination the retailer/manufacturer.

I even got stone-walled by JohnLewis last year on a failed vacuum cleaner which had failed just out of warranty, but had only been in use for a few months. Absolutely "sod-off" attitude. Contacted the manufacturer - no problem, we'll send someone out to collect and repair it, which they did.

Nor have I.

Funnily enough, the only time I was stone-walled a very similar thing happened. It was so small that I didn't dream of escalation, but in the same way, a short email to the manufacturer got me a replacement in the post with no more than me e-mailing a receipt.

It's interesting about John Lewis though. The general internet thought about them is that they were the best for how they did things. On the other hand, Currys now have the policy that mentioning the SoGA gives you 6 years of free repairs for items that are not 'worn out'.

It should be noted that as they have now merged with Carphone Warehouse - I'd suggest the same may apply to phones bought through them.

[Sheepshanks]

JustinP1 said:

It's interesting about John Lewis though. The general internet thought about them is that they were the best for how they did things.

Our family experience is that if it's in warranty JL deal with it, if not, they don't. I'm particularly miffed by a JL own brand washing machine my mother has on which the top split at 2yrs. It looks terrible. JL say it's not covered by warranty as it's cosmetic and the washing machine still works. Which is of course true, so where do you go with that?

[SistersofPercy]

I think you are in with a shout as well, but... (IANAL which is fairly obvious )

Factor in that you've had 3 years use out of it. You wont get the full £500 cost of the phone, your useage will be taken into account and deducted from a settlement. Might be worth nipping in to a genius bar and seeing what deal Apple will do you on the next model up because the cost of that offset against what you'd get back in a claim might be a similar amount if you get my drift.

[Eclassy]

Samsung repaired my TV like 4 years after I bought it. Didnt have to lift a finger. It was a known fault (thanks to the interwebz) so I called them armed with facts.

They arranged to pick it up and it was returned about a week later. Didnt pay a penny.

Like someone said though, it may be harder to get your phone repaired for free but if you are determined and have the time, it can be done. A £600 pbone shouldnt just die after 3yrs.

[JustinP1]

Eclassy said:

Samsung repaired my TV like 4 years after I bought it. Didnt have to lift a finger. It was a known fault (thanks to the interwebz) so I called them armed with facts.

They arranged to pick it up and it was returned about a week later. Didnt pay a penny.

Like someone said though, it may be harder to get your phone repaired for free but if you are determined and have the time, it can be done. A £600 pbone shouldnt just die after 3yrs.

PSU fault?

Ironically mine was a Samsung too.

I think the worst case scenario is as you've said you get a proportional refund based on the usage you've had. Or, you get a replacement as a heavily discounted rate.

The £159 iPhone someone's mentioned isn't actually a bad deal from Apple. They could wash their hands but instead they've offered a new unit at what is probably about cost price.

Come to think of it when my 4 year old PS3 packed up, to save the hassle I took their offer of a replacement for about £120 from memory - this was when they were £400.

[SistersofPercy]

I think when you work out £159 for a replacement vs 3 years use it's not a bad deal, especially when it avoids the hassle of sending recorded letters and court costs etc.

I had a TV issue as well, but mine was screen failure on a 3 year old LG 42". Again common fault. Everything I'd read suggested the screen wasn't worth repairing so I'd mentally prepared myself for a low partial refund accounting for the years I'd owned it. Was amazed (and disappointed) when it turned up 3 weeks later fully repaired as I'd hoped for the refund as an excuse to buy a new TV. Packed in again after 5 years just after Christmas, I was over the moon I could finally justify going out and buying a 3D Smart TV to the other half hehe

[FunkySon]

You can make a claim up to 6 years from date of delivery in the UK according to Apple themselves ...

https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

[CYMR0]

FunkySon said:

You can make a claim up to 6 years from date of delivery in the UK according to Apple themselves ...

https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Yes, if it is faulty. The reason is that there is an implied term in the contract for sale (under the SOGA 1979) that goods are of 'satisfactory quality' and quality includes durability. So if the goods are not of satisfactory quality, the supplier is in breach of contract.

Under the Limitation Act 1980, the period in which a contract claim must be brought is six years from the date of breach (or upon the innocent party becoming aware of the breach) (slightly oversimplified but not for the purposes of this discussion).

Therefore, if you get a new iPhone today and it's faulty immediately, you have six years in which to sue (ignoring the fact that you will be without a remedy in that time).

It does *not* mean that if a fault occurs within six years, the supplier (who may but will not necessarily be Apple) is liable because the goods were not of satisfactory quality. As such, a claim after three years might not be time barred but it doesn't mean that it will succeed, either.

[JustinP1]

FunkySon said:

You can make a claim up to 6 years from date of delivery in the UK according to Apple themselves ...

https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

That's a very general position simply mentioning that over an above their guarantee, you have statutory rights - as it says on it, the point of bringing up a repair/replacement is with the seller, and the position regarding the phone owner justifying the repair for reasons of durability is still there.

iPhones don't come with a 6 year warranty, and they are not guaranteed to last 6 years.

That said, IMHO, if iPhones represent the most expensive mobile phones on the marketplace, at £600 or so, comfortably more than the large majority of other models, if unabused, they should be at the very top end of what is to be expected for durability for a mobile phone.

[fandango_c]

Alucidnation said:

Morning all.

We have had an iPhone4 for approx three years, and we have the problem of the lock button not working (easy to get around using accessibility), but now the phone screen has gone black and will not display anything.

Try simultaneously holding the home button and the on/off button for about 15 seconds - the apple logo may appear on screen and your phone will work.

[robinessex]

I've had freezer that since the day we bought it, 7yrs ago, randomly trips out. Luckliy, we usually manage to spot the red light, and re-boot it. In it's early days, we had 3 calls from the Comet repair guy who changed bits. But on the last visit, he said it was a know problem with some makes, and no amount of changing bits would fix it. I suppose at that point, we should have dumped it back on Comet. A few days ago it did it's trick again, and this time we've lost the entire contents. So I've fired off an angry letter to Hotpoint. See if they respond. According to a quick internet search, 10yr+ is expected from a freezer. If that fails, then it's a house insurance claim.

[elanfan]

OP and Justin - we had a problem with my daughters 2 year old ipod which the retailer said was out of Apple warranty and tried to direct us to Apple who weren't interested. Did some online research and found one or two things that indicated a known problem that Apple seemed to be ignoring or at least relying on unproven science. Hit the seller with the research, the EU 6 year guarantee stuff and the fact that something that is 'designed' to be a portable item must be robust enough for portable use i.e. it should probably be more robust than say a TV that just sits on a wall somewhere. Just saying a phone is only designed to last a few years of a contract when it might cost as much as good TV (which you would expect to last many years) is just plain bks!

The with a threat of eventual small claims court action the seller caved in and replaced it.

[FunkySon]

fandango_c said:

Alucidnation said:

Morning all.

We have had an iPhone4 for approx three years, and we have the problem of the lock button not working (easy to get around using accessibility), but now the phone screen has gone black and will not display anything.

Try simultaneously holding the home button and the on/off button for about 15 seconds - the apple logo may appear on screen and your phone will work.

Given that the op says that they have the common lock button fault (sleep/wake or on/off button - call it what you will) then that suggestion may prove very difficult. It does help to illustrate, however, that these are not unusual problems on an iPhone and that there are various strategies to address the issues. The fact that the op knows about the accessibility workaround would also suggest to me that they've probably already spent some time researching solutions.

[Jon1967x]

Eclassy said:

A £600 pbone shouldnt just die after 3yrs.

What's the relevance of the price? Why would it be acceptable for a £200 Samsung to fail quicker and should a diamond encrusted iphone costing several k last longer?

There's also a lot of assumption on here that retailers are doing things because it's the law and not out of goodwill, customer retention or because it's cheaper than defending in court. How many cases of 3 year old iPhones failing have been tested in court? You could look at how quickly hmrc allows you to write off electrical items to see a (reasonable) view of life span.

[Grumpy old git]

Jon1967x said:

What's the relevance of the price? Why would it be acceptable for a £200 Samsung to fail quicker and should a diamond encrusted iphone costing several k last longer?

There's also a lot of assumption on here that retailers are doing things because it's the law and not out of goodwill, customer retention or because it's cheaper than defending in court. How many cases of 3 year old iPhones failing have been tested in court? You could look at how quickly hmrc allows you to write off electrical items to see a (reasonable) view of life span.

The relevance of the price is that Apple in particular sell themselves as a premium brand. It's entirely reasonable to expect something that costs 3 times as much to be of a higher quality than the cheaper alternative, you'd expect higher quality components to be used as that's exactly what Apple sell themselves on quality and design.

I don't think I'd expect much of a phone after 3 years but I've had success getting things replaced or repaired for free out of warranty. Whether that's retailers misunderstanding the SOGA, goodwill, or something else doesn't really matter to me.

[Sheepshanks]

elanfan said:

OP and Justin - we had a problem with my daughters 2 year old ipod which the retailer...

That's more clear cut - you simply bought the iPod from a retailer. iPhones are often free as part of a service provider contract so the legal status when I looked into it was very unclear.

elanfan said:

the EU 6 year guarantee stuff

The EU guarantee is 2yrs. We generally get a year. 6yrs in the time limit to make claims under SoGA (but that does not equate to a 6yr guarantee).