Man being chased by police - should you help?
Discussion
Mk3Spitfire said:
is that you feel the need to target the police, but are quite happy to acquiesce the others.
If you look at my previous post, you'll see the bit where I mention others, despite this being a thread specifically about the police in a forum specifically called SP&L.To be fair to Tesco, I've never come across an unprofessional shelf-stacker, btw.
Edited by Rovinghawk on Tuesday 16th September 07:35
Humans will always behave badly. This has a greater impact when in a position of power and influence e.g. the banks and police.
Those organisations usually come under greater scrutiny and regulation. The police have their own complaints and discipline and the IPCC. Plus their work is often subject to the scrutiny of the courts, for example.
Those organisations usually come under greater scrutiny and regulation. The police have their own complaints and discipline and the IPCC. Plus their work is often subject to the scrutiny of the courts, for example.
La Liga said:
Humans will always behave badly. This has a greater impact when in a position of power and influence e.g. the banks and police.
AgreedLa Liga said:
Those organisations usually come under greater scrutiny and regulation. The police have their own complaints and discipline and the IPCC. Plus their work is often subject to the scrutiny of the courts, for example.
There have been some quite spectacular examples of this failing. The career of Simon Harwood is a perfect example, as is the case of Michael Mount.Simon Harwood went to Crown Court, faced a jury, was found NG, and was then sacked for gross misconduct. His case also closed the "loophole" of officers resigning to avoid misconduct proceedings and being able to rejoin another force. It wasn't perfect with the dodgy coroner etc, but the collective process did its job.
There will always be a few examples of where mistakes get made, but for the most part I feel the overall system (PSD, IPCC and courts) does its job well and thoroughly. If you're an individual of corrupt means, you'd wise to avoid the police and the higher scrutiny and accountability greatly decrease the chances of behaving in the manner for any sustained period.
There will always be a few examples of where mistakes get made, but for the most part I feel the overall system (PSD, IPCC and courts) does its job well and thoroughly. If you're an individual of corrupt means, you'd wise to avoid the police and the higher scrutiny and accountability greatly decrease the chances of behaving in the manner for any sustained period.
La Liga said:
His case also closed the "loophole" of officers resigning to avoid misconduct proceedings and being able to rejoin another force. It wasn't perfect with the dodgy coroner etc, but the collective process did its job.
Second time around, yes. After the faults in the system allowed someone to be killed. Do we know how many others have slipped through that loophole?How many other unknown loopholes might there be? I accept you won't know, as that's fundamental to the concept of 'unknown'. I merely suggest the possibility of their existence.
That's the nature of a risk environment. Unknown unknowns don't become known until something bad occurs. The questions and judgement then becomes "how foreseeable was that?", and, "what do we do about it?"
It's very likely there's policy / procedural risk / gaps that won't become apparent until something bad occurs.
It's very likely there's policy / procedural risk / gaps that won't become apparent until something bad occurs.
I have a choice of using Tesco, lawyers, NHS doctors e.t.c. Infact any contact with these group of people will have been initiated by me and I have the choice of not dealing with them again.
It is however different with the Police. They have the power to take away my liberty and even when they realise they have made a mistake, they have the power to make me jump through hoops over a 9 year period to 'clear' my name.
Again, like I have always said I have no problems with human beings who happen to be police officers making mistakes. My biggest problem is the closing of ranks and gang menatality displayed in the aftermath of such mistakes.
In my own situation, a simple sorry on my release and the deletion of my record soon after realising and investigating the error would have been the end. A proper investigation into why money removed from my property wasnt recorded on the property sheet and nowhere to be found on my release would have also been nice.
I have recently made a complaint to a local police force. They have come back with the not unexpected "There wasnt any wrongdoing" result. I was told I could only appeal this decision to the police force. I did and then they write to me saying "oh, you can actually appeal to the IPCC" so they forwarded my appeal to the IPCC and the IPCC upheld my appeal and have asked the force to renvestigate my complaint.
These experiences combined with several unwarranted police stops and trailings where not once has any wrongdoing/offence has been found do not fill me with a lot of confidence in the police.
It is however different with the Police. They have the power to take away my liberty and even when they realise they have made a mistake, they have the power to make me jump through hoops over a 9 year period to 'clear' my name.
Again, like I have always said I have no problems with human beings who happen to be police officers making mistakes. My biggest problem is the closing of ranks and gang menatality displayed in the aftermath of such mistakes.
In my own situation, a simple sorry on my release and the deletion of my record soon after realising and investigating the error would have been the end. A proper investigation into why money removed from my property wasnt recorded on the property sheet and nowhere to be found on my release would have also been nice.
I have recently made a complaint to a local police force. They have come back with the not unexpected "There wasnt any wrongdoing" result. I was told I could only appeal this decision to the police force. I did and then they write to me saying "oh, you can actually appeal to the IPCC" so they forwarded my appeal to the IPCC and the IPCC upheld my appeal and have asked the force to renvestigate my complaint.
These experiences combined with several unwarranted police stops and trailings where not once has any wrongdoing/offence has been found do not fill me with a lot of confidence in the police.
Eclassy said:
I have a choice of using Tesco, lawyers, NHS doctors e.t.c. Infact any contact with these group of people will have been initiated by me and I have the choice of not dealing with them again.
Try having an accident or a medical emergency where you need to attend A&E and see how much choice you have over contact with the NHS.Or the fire service.
Somehow Eclassless, I get the impression that you would be someone who wasn't happy, whatever the outcome.
First to slate the police. First to go running to them when a big bad nasty man knocks on your window and...well actually that's it. He knocked on your window. You "chose" to use the police then eh?
Somehow Eclassless, I get the impression that you would be someone who wasn't happy, whatever the outcome.
First to slate the police. First to go running to them when a big bad nasty man knocks on your window and...well actually that's it. He knocked on your window. You "chose" to use the police then eh?
The fire service help people they do not harrass and unlawfully detain people. There may be cases but I have never heard of one where one called the fire service and they tell you 'oh its only a small fire, its not a big deal. Infact no evidence of a fire so we wont be coming out'
The only situation where I would have no input in my medical treatment would be where I am knocked out or in a coma. In that situation any doctor would do. When I come round, if a doctor is being a fool, I can get up/get assistance and leave.
Like I have said many times, where I am from, I would have run over that lunatic thats if he didnt shoot me first but since I live in the UK, I follow UK rules which in that situation was to report it to the police. I wasnt surprised by the police response though. The internet is full of such stories. Anyone remember Bijan Ebrahimi or Christine Chambers?
The only situation where I would have no input in my medical treatment would be where I am knocked out or in a coma. In that situation any doctor would do. When I come round, if a doctor is being a fool, I can get up/get assistance and leave.
Like I have said many times, where I am from, I would have run over that lunatic thats if he didnt shoot me first but since I live in the UK, I follow UK rules which in that situation was to report it to the police. I wasnt surprised by the police response though. The internet is full of such stories. Anyone remember Bijan Ebrahimi or Christine Chambers?
Edited by Eclassy on Tuesday 16th September 14:08
I fail to see the correlation between you being scared by a man getting out of a car, and a) someone being murdered after police conducted a proper investigation, and on finding no evidence, released the man without charge, and b) another murder which you don't have the full details to, and which, just to further discredit your accusations of "closing ranks"/"gang mentality" (yawn) was fully investigated by the IPCC.
It was indeed a proper investigation in the run up to Ebrahimi's murder so much so that the IPCC thought it necessary to send files on 4 of the officers involved to the CPS as recently as July 2014.
And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
Eclassy said:
It was indeed a proper investigation in the run up to Ebrahimi's murder so much so that the IPCC thought it necessary to send files on 4 of the officers involved to the CPS as recently as July 2014.
And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
I'm not really a real policeman. But if you want to talk about lack of maturity, I would first reconsider your juvenile attempts at "jokes". They don't help your cause.And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
Btw, what was your point about those two cases? You haven't really explained yourself. All you've done is contradict yourself.
Eclassy said:
It was indeed a proper investigation in the run up to Ebrahimi's murder so much so that the IPCC thought it necessary to send files on 4 of the officers involved to the CPS as recently as July 2014.
And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
Just for posterity. And why do you keep calling me 'Eclassless'? Its not only boring and dry, it is something I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground.
Petty name calling shows a lack of maturity of someone who claims to be a serving policeman.
Pots and kettles come to mind.
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