Man being chased by police - should you help?

[Hol]

Driver101 said:

zarjaz1991 said:

You're very fortunate you weren't arrested for assault.

Why?

I offered help and the officers said yes.

All I did was grab the guy off the officer and pull him down in a headlock.

It was forceful, but I was trying to stop a fight. I don't think it was unreasonable force in the slightest.

101, IMHO you did the 'right' thing.


If I and nine others witnessed a mugging, I would like to think that society has not regressed so badly, that I would be the only one stepping forward, rather than looking at the floor and walking away.

[anonymous-user]

I've never known a handful of non-criminals not help the police i.e. provide a statement / information / help with an investigation.

[Devil2575]

Bbunter said:

If I saw someone being chased by the police on foot. I'd probably go as far as deliberately getting in the way of the chasee, or maybe sticking a foot out or something. But I don't think I'd get too involved in any incident.

A work colleague of mind did just this the other day. Stuck out a foot and tripped a man who was being chased by the Police. The man in question had been caught while breaking into a house. The Police thanked him.

[Devil2575]

Eclassy said:

This is still ongoing. Police are just going to have that accept that a significant number of people dislike them for various reasons.

I'd agrue about the term significant. As I said I don't currently know anyone who dislikes the Police.

However some people I have known did have a problem with them. One guy I used to know hated them, he was a drug dealer. Another guy didn't like them because he got caught driving like a tit more than once and had the book thrown at him. Another was the kind of guy who liked 10 pints and a fight and the Police locked him up more than once. Another group of people I used to know didn't like them because the Police kept trying to stop them being a public nuisance riding motorbikes in places they shouldn't. I've known people who stole cars who didn't like the cops and another guy who hated them because he got nicked after putting a guy in hospital for dating his ex. He hated them even more when he went to prison for it.

On reflection I've known some pretty dodgy charachters in my time.

Everyone I've known who has an issue with the Police was involved in some sort of crime that they thought they should be allowed to get away with.
I've known a few scousers and die hard Liverpool supporters, who you would have expected to have reason to dislike them but didn't.

[Eclassy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10841...

A quarter is quite significant.

If you can be bothered to check, there are hundreds of stories of innocent and upstanding members of the public who do not trust police. I am one of them and I am not ashamed to admit that.

[Devil2575]

Eclassy said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10841...

A quarter is quite significant.

If you can be bothered to check, there are hundreds of stories of innocent and upstanding members of the public who do not trust police. I am one of them and I am not ashamed to admit that.

It's one survey with a relatively small sample size and we have no idea how ensured that it was a representative sample. What was the motivation of those doing the survey? Do they have an agenda?

[Mk3Spitfire]

Eclassy, you don't like the police because they looked at your stupid video of a man doing nothing wrong, and did nothing about it. Oh and the fact that your friend was arrested, held for 7 years in a high security prison and tortured, over the theft of a mars bar that he did not steal. You are one of the irrational dislikers that I mentioned. You don't like police because they didn't do what you wanted them to, and did something you didn't like. Even though those things were probably the correct thing to do.

[Rovinghawk]

Devil2575 said:

It's one survey with a relatively small sample size and we have no idea how ensured that it was a representative sample. What was the motivation of those doing the survey? Do they have an agenda?

It's a PolFed commissioned survey- suggesting any anti-police bias is a fairly weak argument.

[Devil2575]

Rovinghawk said:

Devil2575 said:

It's one survey with a relatively small sample size and we have no idea how ensured that it was a representative sample. What was the motivation of those doing the survey? Do they have an agenda?

It's a PolFed commissioned survey- suggesting any anti-police bias is a fairly weak argument.

I didn't suggest anti-Police bias.

I was simply saying we don't know if the people doing the survey had an agenda.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Rovinghawk said:

It's a PolFed commissioned survey- suggesting any anti-police bias is a fairly weak argument.

I'm confident that in my area that result would more likely be one or two in ten don't trust (which, incidentally isn't the same as "dislike" the police). Would you then accept that statistic? The survey is small compared to the entire population.
What percentage of those people surveyed had a criminal record, thus altering their honest and genuine perception?

[Rovinghawk]

Mk3Spitfire said:

I'm confident that in my area that result would more likely be one or two in ten don't trust (which, incidentally isn't the same as "dislike" the police). Would you then accept that statistic? The survey is small compared to the entire population.
What percentage of those people surveyed had a criminal record, thus altering their honest and genuine perception?

If the survey is pointless, why did the PolFed commission it & then parade the results?

Even if we use your figures, if 10-20% of the population don't trust the police, don't you see that as a problem which needs addressing?

[Mk3Spitfire]

Rovinghawk said:

Mk3Spitfire said:

I'm confident that in my area that result would more likely be one or two in ten don't trust (which, incidentally isn't the same as "dislike" the police). Would you then accept that statistic? The survey is small compared to the entire population.
What percentage of those people surveyed had a criminal record, thus altering their honest and genuine perception?

If the survey is pointless, why did the PolFed commission it & then parade the results?

Even if we use your figures, if 10-20% of the population don't trust the police, don't you see that as a problem which needs addressing?

No. Because a survey of this nature is never going to be completely honest and genuine. People, like you and certain others on here have clear issues with the police. Some people have issues which are completely unfounded. Therefore, any of these surveys will always have a proportion of people who are not giving a reliable addition to the survey.

[Durzel]

Rovinghawk said:

If the survey is pointless, why did the PolFed commission it & then parade the results?

Even if we use your figures, if 10-20% of the population don't trust the police, don't you see that as a problem which needs addressing?

Is it a problem that can realistically be addressed? What would be the achievable goal by which you'd decide it was a success?

There are people, like Eclassy, who write off the entire Police edifice on the strength of personal experiences which either didn't go his way, or to his unrealistic expectations, even though both interactions were lawful.

There are people who believe that "discretion" means they should always be let off - even though if you take that opinion to its logical conclusion it means no one gets prosecuted because they're all being given endless warnings instead. Next time though they'll really try hard not to do it.

You can't win these people over, as to them the base principal that their actions are subject to an authoritarian regime is abhorrent to them, so they'll never be in favour or even supportive of the Police. That's not to say that 10-20% of the polled people fall into the category of ex-criminals or libertarian nutjobs - but you can bet there's a good proportion in there.

As an aside this vocal minority is usually the first to cry foul when the Police aren't on their doorstep in 2 minutes flat when they have a problem and have no one else to turn to.

(Apocryphally, I've had run-ins with the Police and in all but two instances I had done something wrong (speeding). The other two times were proactive policing. I got pulled driving my Dad's car when I was 17 - they asked me to read the numberplate from the back of the car, I only realised that there was suspicion that I'd stolen it after. Another time I was running home in dark clothing, and was stopped and asked where I had been/was going to. In both instances I didn't have a problem with it because if I had stolen the car or been going equipped I would've been caught, and the owner would've got it back.)

Edited by Durzel on Monday 29th September 11:52

[Rovinghawk]

Mk3Spitfire said:

any of these surveys will always have a proportion of people who are not giving a reliable addition to the survey.

And the unreliability will always work in a direction which suits you rather than one that works against you? I thought that might be the case.

[Eclassy]

@ Durzel

"Let off". This is one of the biggest problens with the police when every person they come across is guilty until proven innocent. I didnt do a damn thing wrong. Police made a mistake. Like I have said several times, I have no problem with human beings making mistakes. It is how those mistakes are rectified that matters.

I doubt any sensible person thinks it is appropriate that it takes an innocent person 9 years to 'clear' their name.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Rovinghawk said:

And the unreliability will always work in a direction which suits you rather than one that works against you? I thought that might be the case.

Mr Hawk, please try not to be hypocritical. If the survey had resulted a100% trust in the police, you would have been one of the first to dispute it. As per Durzel says above your post, a survey like that will always be bias in one way or t'other.

[Rovinghawk]

Mr Spitfire

Anyone would expect a survey to have a slight (even if unintentional) bias towards those commissioning a survey. Ideally a survey would be neutral.

You suggest that it is biased against those commissioning it & I suggest that this is unlikely to be the case. If it were, why request & then publish it?

You refuse to see any problem & denigrate anyone suggesting that a problem might exist. As you see nothing needing to improve, nothing ever will.

eta 'You' is at a corporate rather than personal level

[Mk3Spitfire]

And that is where your assumptions get the better of you.
I completely agree there is a problem, and that it needs to be addressed. I just don't agree with some of the figures that are thrown about.
Realising the fact that there is a problem is part of the reason I joined the police. I had negative experiences of the police before I joined and it made me think that I would be completely different if it were me. I would like to think that my attitude as a police officer has altered at least some persons views of the police. For example, yesterday I was approached in the street and hugged by a female I had had several dealings with over the years and arrested on more than one occasion. She was leaving the area with her boyfriend and wanted to say bye. I always treated her fairly and it clearly had an impact to the point she wanted to say thanks. So I, probably more than your fine self am aware there is a problem with society's perception of the police.

[Rovinghawk]

I'm pleased to hear this.

Mk3Spitfire said:

I completely agree there is a problem, and that it needs to be addressed.

To paraphrase Durzel, what can be done?

[Hol]

Devil2575 said:

Rovinghawk said:

Devil2575 said:

It's one survey with a relatively small sample size and we have no idea how ensured that it was a representative sample. What was the motivation of those doing the survey? Do they have an agenda?

It's a PolFed commissioned survey- suggesting any anti-police bias is a fairly weak argument.

I didn't suggest anti-Police bias.

I was simply saying we don't know if the people doing the survey had an agenda.

Or the questions asked can be loaded, which can completely skewe the results.