Police Bike rider in accident - vid footage

[Guffy]

Ignoring the ridiculous DM headline...

The video footage is quite interesting in that the outrider is over-taking cars at the T junction where the impact occurs. Is this a cut and dry case against the car driver?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752691/Ha...

[StuntmanMike]

I don't know because the video didn't work for me, however what concerned me was the fact the cop's helmet was off, surely his colleagues wouldn't of removed it would they?

[Impasse]

StuntmanMike said:

I don't know because the video didn't work for me

Crucial moment screengrab for you. The yellow flash above the Prius is the bike rider. The car appearing from the right is still moving and doesn't actually stop until after the crash has occurred. It seems from the footage it may have had to slow due the actions of the Prius.

[Drumroll]

I would have thought police motorcyclists would know how to remove a helmet from an injured rider.

[Guffy]

The low FPS does make it difficult to determine the speed of the on coming traffic, i thought the Prius driver nipped out between the slow moving London traffic? I guess it's plausible that the Prius driver may have been 'flashed' out of the junction, although i guess that won't help much!

Edited by Guffy on Friday 12th September 09:04

[birdcage]

That's outside my house!

[Gafferjim]

You have to quickly assess if the rider is having trouble breathing, if he is, then the helmet needs to come off, the police are trained how to remove helmets safely without causing further damage to the rider (All race marshals are trained similar )
A dead rider with his helmet on *because you shouldn't remove it* is not the scenario you want.

As a minimum you at least need to undo the helmet strap / fixing to assist with breathing

[untakenname]

Good thing that the rider wasn't wearing one of those flip up helmets that the police are so fond of wearing whilst driving in London (with it flipped up).

Imo the taxi cab is 100% to blame as you can legally filter on the right past junctions.

Edited by untakenname on Friday 12th September 10:13

[mel]

StuntmanMike said:

I don't know because the video didn't work for me, however what concerned me was the fact the cop's helmet was off, surely his colleagues wouldn't of removed it would they?

This is the 1990's calling, if you know what you're doing and it's in the riders best interest then the helmet comes off. Now days every motorcyclist should know how to do this properly and safely as the odds are you'll be first on scene when your mate goes skittling down the road. If you don't know how it's about time you learnt, there really is no excuse.

I've seen the extremes of a lightly injured walking rider physically fighting with his mates as he wanted to take his helmet off and they all thought he should keep it on till the ambulance got there, and know of cases where riders choked to death on their own blood and tongue because everyone was still suffering from the 1990's indoctrination of "don't take his helmet off"

http://www.kent.fire-uk.org/your_safety/road_safet...

https://www.facebook.com/bikerdownuk

[onyx39]

Would the bike and royal vehicles not have been on "blues", in which case it's a clear case of the drivers fault?
As for the taking off motorcyclists helmet, very interesting, I had not read this.

[SiH]

With regards to the removal of the rider's helmet it would depend on his ability to protect his own airway. What I mean by that is that it is generally considered that someone with a GCS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Coma_Scale) of less than 9 is unable to keep their own airway open and is therefore liable to go into respiratory arrest which will lead to death much quicker than any other spinal or head injury. There's no point watching someone die from respiratory arrest because of a fear of what might happen if a helmet is removed. I would hope that whoever took it off was in an informed position to make that decision (i.e. some sort of first aid training with an introduction to airway management) but it could of course have been done in the heat of the moment without considering the possible outcomes. If it's the latter then it is indeed concerning.

[Sheepshanks]

Guffy said:

The low FPS does make it difficult to determine the speed of the on coming traffic, i thought the Prius driver nipped out between the slow moving London traffic?

It does look like that. The speed on the approaching bike has to be relevant in that it simply might not have been there when the Prius driver looked.

I guess if you live in London you see this sort of convoy all they time but you do have to question the necessity of driving at high speed with the obvious risks involved.

[onyx39]

Sheepshanks said:

I guess if you live in London you see this sort of convoy all they time but you do have to question the necessity of driving at high speed with the obvious risks involved.

I would guess that with the heightened state of alert we are on, and the fact that is was Harry, going to the Invictus games, he would be quite a target right now?
Maybe driving slightly quicker than usual?

[turbobloke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is filtering the new name for overtaking slow moving traffic i.e. still an overtake? As opposed to using a filter lane.

Rule 167 of the Highway Code advises drivers and riders not to overtake when it might cause conflict with other road users, for example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road.

If blues were on there is presumably an exemption for it?

[johnnywb]

onyx39 said:

Would the bike and royal vehicles not have been on "blues", in which case it's a clear case of the drivers fault?
As for the taking off motorcyclists helmet, very interesting, I had not read this.

Yep. I work in the West End and see these convoys quite regularly (at least once a week generally). They always run on blue lights. They don't tend to have sirens, but they do have a 'whistle' which I guess is their version of a siren. The bikes seem to race ahead an block junctions / stop traffic to allow the main cars (Range Rover / Jag) with the Discovery behind them to speed straight through.

[Sheepshanks]

onyx39 said:

Maybe driving slightly quicker than usual?

Was it though? My impression is that this has 'always' happened - many years ago I was nearly run off the M4 by a convoy with Princess Di in it.

The bike would probably have been accelerating ahead of the convoy too, although from the lack of damage to the bike (but maybe that's a function of where it hit the Prius) it wouldn't appear to have been going at a massive speed.

[onyx39]

johnnywb said:

onyx39 said:

Would the bike and royal vehicles not have been on "blues", in which case it's a clear case of the drivers fault?
As for the taking off motorcyclists helmet, very interesting, I had not read this.

Yep. I work in the West End and see these convoys quite regularly (at least once a week generally). They always run on blue lights. They don't tend to have sirens, but they do have a 'whistle' which I guess is their version of a siren. The bikes seem to race ahead an block junctions / stop traffic to allow the main cars (Range Rover / Jag) with the Discovery behind them to speed straight through.

Someone on Facebook just saying that the bikes are not fitted with sirens.

[Shaw Tarse]

johnnywb said:

onyx39 said:

Would the bike and royal vehicles not have been on "blues", in which case it's a clear case of the drivers fault?
As for the taking off motorcyclists helmet, very interesting, I had not read this.

Yep. I work in the West End and see these convoys quite regularly (at least once a week generally). They always run on blue lights. They don't tend to have sirens, but they do have a 'whistle' which I guess is their version of a siren. The bikes seem to race ahead an block junctions / stop traffic to allow the main cars (Range Rover / Jag) with the Discovery behind them to speed straight through.

I've read that the whistle is more effective than sirens in these situations?
YouTube has vids of them in action.

[carinaman]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed. Junctions are dangerous places. That comment reminds of the one where a motorcyclist overtaking on a through road collided with that Special Constable joining from the side junction that couldn't get her story right about whether she was on her mobile phone.

It's criminal that amount of fuss that's made about speed while so little is made about the multitude of potential dangers at junctions.

'It's within the rules'?

That reads like driving by numbers. Someone can be driving within the rules, I am thinking mainly of speed limits here, but driving badly or inconsiderately.

I am not sure driving by numbers works when there are so many different permutations of what could potentially happen at a junction.

[WinstonWolf]

That is one lucky rider, discharged from hospital on the same day, miraculous!