What is the law on cyclists speeding?

[tenpenceshort]

Dogs are typically reckless when cycling and often fall off.

[wilwak]

DaveH23 said:

This is not in anyway a cyclist bashing thread but I am interested on the law in this situation.

Just watched the welsh speed camera video and a related video throws up this one.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qacLW2NSmi0

Basically a couple of guys purposely set off a speed camera on a push bike. The photo captured wont identify him but they are openly showing their faces admitting what they are doing in this clip. Could and should this person be charged and is he incriminating himself?

Please lets not turn this in to a cyclist bashing thread and can we keep it to facts/the law.

Doesn't the flash come from the garden behind the camera??? Fake?

[Dammit]

And are therefore different to cars because?

[NicD]

Dammit said:

And are therefore different to cars because?

They cycle in packs, don't slow down and sometimes are overtaking cars (which generally obey the 20mph limit)

If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

[Dammit]

Heh, maybe 1 car in 50 obeys the 20mph limit- you can tell which ones do, as there's a pack of cars behind them, overtaking when they can - just like something else...

You just don't like cyclists, I suggest.

[austinsmirk]

I cycle a lot and this is also around Bradford which is solid with speed cameras. Well the inner city is and I used to go through loads on a commute to work. Never been able to set them off and I can easily do more than 30 on my racing bike. Gutted !!!!

[gazza285]

NicD said:

They cycle in packs, don't slow down and sometimes are overtaking cars (which generally obey the 20mph limit)

If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

Boo hoo. People doing nothing illegal.

Perhaps you should have a word with the Park Authorities as their website encourages you to log your lap times. That and learn how to cross the road.

[Tunku]

Many year ago as a teen, I was pulled by a Jam Sandwich on Gullane Main street. I was on my new 10 speed racer and giving it all down the road which is inclined slightly.
Got an absolute bking off the Sarge who said I was doing 45 mph in a 30 limit. No hint of a charge, just an RSM style bking.

[rs1952]

Tunku said:

Many year ago as a teen, I was pulled by a Jam Sandwich on Gullane Main street. I was on my new 10 speed racer and giving it all down the road which is inclined slightly.
Got an absolute bking off the Sarge who said I was doing 45 mph in a 30 limit. No hint of a charge, just an RSM style bking.

To repeat an earlier post:

"Police let man go who wasn't breaking the law shocker!!"

[Meoricin]

gazza285 said:

NicD said:

They cycle in packs, don't slow down and sometimes are overtaking cars (which generally obey the 20mph limit)

If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

Boo hoo. People doing nothing illegal.

Perhaps you should have a word with the Park Authorities as their website encourages you to log your lap times. That and learn how to cross the road.

Aye, sounds more like a case of 'it's not a car, so I'll just step out in front of it regardless - AAARGH it's going faster than I thought was possible!'

[emmaT2014]

Strap one of these on: http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/radar-reflectors/ma...

[BMWBen]

NicD said:

Dammit said:

And are therefore different to cars because?

They cycle in packs, don't slow down and sometimes are overtaking cars (which generally obey the 20mph limit)

If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

Don't forget the deer. They're also in packs, and they mean you can't take your dog off the lead and let it run around. If you want to be a deer you should do it in the countryside not in our special dog park.

[Fastpedeller]

Down on the seafront at Southend-on-sea they have a cycle track running parallel to the road, and there are speed cameras! Great fun riding along the track at great knots and trying to set the camera off as the motorist beside you goes slower!

[muppets_mate]

BMWBen said:

NicD said:

Dammit said:

And are therefore different to cars because?

They cycle in packs, don't slow down and sometimes are overtaking cars (which generally obey the 20mph limit)

If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

Don't forget the deer. They're also in packs, and they mean you can't take your dog off the lead and let it run around. If you want to be a deer you should do it in the countryside not in our special dog park.

What could possibly go wrong?

[TheLemming]

Fun one this

Speed limits explicitly do not apply to bicycles. Not many people know that and cars often get very irate when being overtaken.

20 limits especially, 25mph on the flat isn't too tough, 25mph up an incline is harder but perfectly doable. Downhill, even a slight decline, no problem at all.

There is one place which claims that limits do apply (Richmond park) however these have been applied by bye-law and there is a belief that they would be overturned on legal challenge however at this point nobody has put the money in to actually do that (not a cheap exercise).

The "wanton and furious cycling" charge is a red herring, it's been used so rarely that case law on it is barely existant and is pretty much only going to stick in a KSI incident - which is amazingly rare as well.

Basically if a cyclist screws up at speed it's normally them that gets hurt.

[yellowjack]

NicD said:

the streams of fast cyclists are a pain when crossing the roads in Richmond Park, especially with dogs.

Its funny, boy racers on these roads would not be accepted but its ok for the lycra lot to pretend to be in a velodrome...

...and...

...If they want to train, they should use a velodrome not a public park.

Maybe feckin' dog owners should make sure that their furry st-machines either do their 'business' in the garden at home, or clean the feckin' horrid stuff up immediately, and take it home to dispose of it properly. Oh. Wait. The law already requires that they do this, yet I constantly have to steer a course around steaming piles of dog-toffee dotted all over the off road trails in my area. Also, make sure that the damned things stay on the bloody lead, so that you can find the turds to clean them up, and the damned dog doesn't go off trying to get it's head kicked in by tethered horses, or chase mountain bikers who might also kick the damned mutt in self defence. Dogs, and their owners, are a bloody menace. Always walking on bridleways, where galloping horses and pacey bikers have a right to be, then when commercial dog walkers drive us off these bridleways, onto nearby footpaths, we are somehow responsible for Armageddon? I just don't get it, as it seems that dogists unloading their precious Labradors from their 'Chelsea Tractors' want to have it all their own bloody way. Just like cyclists, motorists, and recreational drug users.

FFS! Every user group likes to see themselves as the victims of an international conspiracy against them, while the fault lies with all other users. Which is blatantly bks, as most people belong to two or more overlapping groups.

As far as the law goes? Cyclists CANNOT be charged with the specific offence of 'riding in excess of the speed limit' because the speed limits do not apply to them. But the Police can take action, if they consider a cyclist's actions to be 'careless' or 'dangerous', although the burden of proof is greater with such charges. Evidence will be required, to prove that the cyclist's control of his cycle fell "significantly below that expected of a competent rider" and this must be demonstrated "beyond a reasonable doubt" in a court of law. Motor vehicle speeding offences, as most of us are aware, are persecuted prosecuted regardless of the level of carelessness or danger involved.

Example from personal experience? I was fined £60 and received 3 penalty points on my licence for driving at 70 mph on a completely deserted 50mph limited section of the M4 near Swansea in the early hours of the morning. Not a living soul to witness it, leave alone being endangered by it, but the yellow box flashed, and the 'NIP' duly arrived. Now watch the video linked above. A cyclist deliberately sets out to activate a speed camera, coincidentally Policed by the same South Wales force. Remembering that there is no specific offence for 'excessive speed', you, as a Police officer, would need to gather evidence of the greater offences of either 'careless' or 'dangerous' riding. The road is almost entirely empty on both attempts, and the cyclist has the run of two lanes of what appears to be very good quality tarmac with which to play. Good luck with persuading a court that this guy was either 'dangerous' or 'careless' in these attempts.

The only cycling offence I can see on the vid is the unknown rider in the second attempt, who is plodding his way up the hill on the footpath, which IS a specific offence and can be dealt with by means of a FPN

The same, by the way, is true of cycling whilst drunk. You CANNOT be charged with the offence of 'failing to provide a specimen of breath' if you are stopped for being drunk on a bike, because there is no set blood alcohol limit against which to compare the sample. Even if you were asked to take the breath test, and complied, any reading from the roadside unit, or even the calibrated intoximeter, would be inadmissible as evidence. The Police could report you for the offence of being 'drunk in charge of a bicycle', but again, it's more likely that you would receive a stiff telling off, than for officers to waste precious time on a mountain of paperwork that would likely fail the 'in the public interest' test and not make it to court. There are also many other 'public order' alcohol related offences with which to charge someone caught "riding whilst incapable, through use of drink or drugs".

Almost without exception, the rest of road and traffic legislation applies equally to bicycles and motor vehicles. All these frothing at the mouth anti-cyclist morons who shout loudly when bikes ignore traffic signs, lights, one way streets, bus lanes, etc? They're talking out of their bottoms if they seriously believe all those offences are committed only by cyclists. I quite often witness drivers breaking all the rules that cyclists are accused of ignoring, and those drivers "get away with it" just as often, for lack of a useful Police presence on our roads.

And yes. Before anyone asks the question, when I drive my car, YES, I DO SPEED, occasionally. We all do (well, almost all of us), but like me, most don't "take the piss" and tend not to get fined on a daily basis. And yes, as good a driver as I'd like to believe I am, I've driven through red lights (usually in the dead of night with good sight lines, or when a pedestrian pushes the crossing button but doesn't wait for the lights to change). Whilst on my bicycle, I'll be going as fast as I can manage. If that means I'm setting off speed cameras, so be it. The chances of being identified and charged with some spurious 'offence' are so remote that they don't even enter my head.

Oh, and in case that earlier paragraph wasn't clear enough, a message to whinging dog walkers:

When you have your own house in order, and can say, honestly, that you...

a) clean up ALL of your own pet's crap
b) challenge ANY and ALL fellow dog owners who fail to do so
and
c) clean up other peoples dog mess that you find, because their vile arrogance is abhorrent to you

...then, after re-acquainting yourself with the 'Green Cross Code', and the sage advice of Tufty Fluffytail, regale us again with tales of just how damned difficult it is to cross the road in a public park, and how tough your life is.


And NicD, FFS make sure you ALWAYS take mummy with you when you go to the ice cream van, or you'll end up like hurt, like poor Willie Weasel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrivBSv20Y ...and keep a tight hold of mummies hand when she takes you to the shops We don't want you getting lost, now

[walm]

TL; DR yellowjack needs to get laid, up his meds or ease off the caffeine

PH: sweeping generalisations matter.

Don't stoop to NicD's level and accuse him of doing something wrong because lots of his type (dog owners) do it.
As far as we know he is an exemplary furry poop machine custodian.

Love,
Walm (non-RLJing cyclist, BMW driver who indicates, poop-picking-up dog owner.)

[gazza285]

Nice rant Yellowjack!

[nurseholliday]

Without filling the thread up with videos, here's Alex Dowsett (formerly Team SKY, now Movistar) not setting a camera off, but making the "30mph slow" sign come on during a TT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2REOBrMC4

[TwistingMyMelon]

I got pulled over by police on my bike twice, once slipstreaming a caravan down a DC @ 55mph and once for doing 38mph through a 30 zone

Both times they just gave me a lecture on my own stupidity, rather than any offence, TBH they were right, if I spent my time dealing with horrendous accidents resulting from stupidity I would come down on people being idiots