CATS

Author
Discussion

Spudler

3,985 posts

195 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Can't be arsed to find a link but take our word for it, fruit trees are not protected, even in a conservation area.

My current development (conservation area) has several apple and pear trees, the Tree Officer couldn't care less that they're coming down. The monster Copper Beech, that's where he's having kittens.

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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_dobbo_ said:
Cat owners in this thread - if I knocked on your door and was reasonable, asking you to come to my garden twice a day to clean up your cat's st - I assume you would all be reasonable and say yes?
if you can prove it's my cat then it's my responsibility wink

Hol

8,359 posts

199 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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TheAllSeeingPie said:
Hol said:
Oh yeah busted.... you have obviously zeroed in on the absolute reason why we all get rid of pets just after xmas (all the neighbours have gone back to work and they would just be burden on us).

In hindsight I deliberately bought our aquarium just to ps off the local water supplier.

Tomorrow, I thought I might buy a feral Eagle, just in case someone near me owns some homing pidgeons. It seems a perfect reason to buy one.


laugh
No, I'm not saying it's the absolute reason am I? However if you buy a cat you should accept that it can piss the neighbours off and you should do something about it rather than leaving them to be upset? Or are you happy to play the "it's a cat, of course it can st all over your garden, live with it?".

As for the suggestion of a feral eagle, that certainly would put a stop to the cats in the OP's garden, thanks for the great idea!
Dont worry I know what you mean. I just dont like generalisations.

Before we bought two Female cats (that only crap in their own domain) I used to get bothered by it as well.


None of my neighbours have ever complained to me about my cats, and only one of them (moved in since us 9 years ago) is an arsewipe. The rest exchange Xmas gifts and do each other favours (not THAT kind).

Id like to think I would provide a humane deterrent free of charge if they did have a problem though.





TheAllSeeingPie

865 posts

134 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Hol said:
Dont worry I know what you mean. I just dont like generalisations.

Before we bought two Female cats (that only crap in their own domain) I used to get bothered by it as well.


None of my neighbours have ever complained to me about my cats, and only one of them (moved in since us 9 years ago) is an arsewipe. The rest exchange Xmas gifts and do each other favours (not THAT kind).

Id like to think I would provide a humane deterrent free of charge if they did have a problem though.
Sounds like our situation here then, we've not had any complaints about the cats fortunately. Sorry if I was coming across as generalising smile

bracken78

983 posts

205 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Perhaps if you believe in that stuff... Anyway, if you read my complete reply and not the first three words you would note I don't care that cats wounder around the garden or even use it a there toilet (it takes seconds to put in the bin). Its cats coming into the house that bugs me. The last incident was this weekend and on returning home the cat, after being lock unintentionally in the conservatory had peed all over the place. You seem to be a cat Owner so surly you must see what not nice?

LucreLout

908 posts

117 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Cat traps are a humane and simple answer.
If you keep letting the same cat out, just take it to the vet and hand it in so they can read the chip and inform the owner.
Unfortunately for any "3 time loser", the vet opens after I go to work, so I plan to just take the cat to a vet near work... 30-40 miles away.
No theft, no mistreatment, owner gets intact cat returned after a road trip, and cat never comes back a 4th time. Everyone's a winner. hehe

Before the angry cat ladies of PH get upset, I've only ever released an individual moggy twice - no vets yet.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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LucreLout said:
No theft. Everyone's a winner. hehe
You might want to check that with the police. Whilst my criminal law is several years out of date, I suspect treating someone else's property as if it was your own could land you in hot water.

read5458

503 posts

182 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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I've used the majority of the sprays, pellets, sonic devices and a good old jug of water. All have failed.

The only one I've avoided is the traps.

I have 3 children all under the age of 4. I have to do morning and afternoon scouting runs around the garden. The garden has had borders, bark, and slabs, all of which were targeted, all of which have been removed and replaced with grass. Now they just scensoredt on the grass.

The owners of several cats range from "So what?, it's what cats do and no, I am not cleaning it up" to "I don't care but you touch my cat and I'll fcensoredk you up". Both responses were unhelpful but made it perfectly clear that their cat can do as it pleases but go near it and die.

Depending on the layout, noise and ability to open the back door quietly, water, super soakers do not work. By the time you've opened the door wide enough to get out, they've scensoredt on your garden and ran off. This is assuming you avoid all other responsibilities you have in life, to stand guard with water/super soakers at the ready.

I've spent a lot of money on deterrents and had little to no success. It's my property, the cat belongs to someone else, I have to clean up its scensoredt and the law is on the side of the cat owner. It doesn't look like fair comes into this little area of fun.

LucreLout

908 posts

117 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Jasandjules said:
You might want to check that with the police. Whilst my criminal law is several years out of date, I suspect treating someone else's property as if it was your own could land you in hot water.
I'm unsure how taking a cat to a vet who can trace its rightful owner is theft?

How else am I to trace them?

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Interesting excuse for swinging the lead. I expect the vet will divulge information on the finder?

Life has bigger issues and we do a lot more damage to the world yet we get upset over little things. I suspect that if it were not this, it would be something else. Life is too short.



9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Jasandjules said:
LucreLout said:
No theft. Everyone's a winner. hehe
You might want to check that with the police. Whilst my criminal law is several years out of date, I suspect treating someone else's property as if it was your own could land you in hot water.
Is theft still based on an intention to permanently deprive someone of their property?

LucreLout

908 posts

117 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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jmorgan said:
Interesting excuse for swinging the lead. I expect the vet will divulge information on the finder?

Life has bigger issues and we do a lot more damage to the world yet we get upset over little things. I suspect that if it were not this, it would be something else. Life is too short.
Unfortunately for pussy cat, my very young child plays in the garden, so protecting them from parasitic cat st trumps whatever the cat owner wants. Its my house, so they don't get a say.


Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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9mm said:
Is theft still based on an intention to permanently deprive someone of their property?
The intent to permanently deprive can be inferred from using /treating an item as if you own it IIRC. I'd say that repeatedly removing cats from an area to "take them to the vets to check" is boll**ks and won't fly. If the RSPCA did it or the cats were injured, then yes.

But I am sure the person in question can phone the police and check and make sure. But I suspect he won't because I suspect he knows full well what the answer would be and then plod would be on notice.


LucreLout

908 posts

117 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Jasandjules said:
The intent to permanently deprive can be inferred from using /treating an item as if you own it IIRC. I'd say that repeatedly removing cats from an area to "take them to the vets to check" is boll**ks and won't fly. If the RSPCA did it or the cats were injured, then yes.

But I am sure the person in question can phone the police and check and make sure. But I suspect he won't because I suspect he knows full well what the answer would be and then plod would be on notice.
My plod mate advises you should only seek legal advice from a lawyer and not the police, due to some of his colleagues not having the fullest grasp of a very extensive subject.

But I suspect it would be fine. I'm returning the cat via a convenient means. There's no treating it as if I owned it. Removing a pest / rodent from my garden isn't a crime or cat traps wouldn't be legal. Harming it might be, but I absolutely don't consider that fair game.

Martin4x4

6,506 posts

131 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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TheAllSeeingPie said:
Martin4x4 said:
What is to stop you, you ask.

The Theft Act for a start.
That only applies if you intend to keep the cat.
Wrong, there is no requirement to keep the cat, only permanantly deprive the rightful owner enjoyment of their property.

Here are the two relevant parts of the Theft Act

(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.

(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
LucreLout said:
My plod mate advises you should only seek legal advice from a lawyer and not the police, due to some of his colleagues not having the fullest grasp of a very extensive subject.

But I suspect it would be fine. I'm returning the cat via a convenient means. There's no treating it as if I owned it. Removing a pest / rodent from my garden isn't a crime or cat traps wouldn't be legal. Harming it might be, but I absolutely don't consider that fair game.
Your plod friend is correct and historically I have advised officers as to specific legislation but that was in a time when I actually studied it...Now it is but a hazy memory. But I can assure you that in this case I am willing to bet your plod mate will be able to tell you that you would be nicked for it.

A cat is neither a pest nor a rodent, in law. Cat traps are not for neighbours to collect cats cra***ng in their garden and dropping them somewhere else.

Nonetheless, OP I do not suggest you follow the advice of cat trapping and removal. A super soaker with lemon juice or orange peels however, fair enough.





9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Seems to be missing the permanent bit to me.

LucreLout

908 posts

117 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Jasandjules said:
Your plod friend is correct and historically I have advised officers as to specific legislation but that was in a time when I actually studied it...Now it is but a hazy memory. But I can assure you that in this case I am willing to bet your plod mate will be able to tell you that you would be nicked for it.

A cat is neither a pest nor a rodent, in law. Cat traps are not for neighbours to collect cats cra***ng in their garden and dropping them somewhere else.

Nonetheless, OP I do not suggest you follow the advice of cat trapping and removal. A super soaker with lemon juice or orange peels however, fair enough.
I'd agree with you were I proposing turfing the cat out in a street in Leeds, but handing it into the first available vet seems little different to doing the same when I find a wallet. There is no legal requirement to hand it into the closest police station, simply one convenient to the finder.

The vast majority of cats don't return once they've got themselves stuck for the night once, and none have returned after achieving a second night in solitary confinement.

Who me ?

Original Poster:

7,455 posts

211 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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Martin4x4 said:
What is to stop you, you ask.

The Theft Act for a start.
Nice ,one, but for that to apply, the cat has to be "owned", and when you ask about cat fouling ,the answer is always "it's not an owned pet, but a wild animal". To me it seems cat owners want it both ways- to have a pet and not be responsible for it's actions. I keep on getting told "it's up to you to keep it out ,or deter it ", but when I do it humanely with a jug of water, the owner turns into a feral animal .One in question I don't want using my garden is a she ,which I note is attracting a lot of tom cat attention at her house one reason I don't want it pee ing in my garden ,as this will attract a lot of fully active Toms who'se pee stinks. I could just let my speyed /chipped / tagged /inoculated and wormed little terrier out , but there's a slim chance that she might get hurt, and a greater chance that she might defend herself and hurt another animal, as she has 500 years of vermin prevention built in. That is also something I don't want, as the only winner is the vet. So cat owners ,DECIDE- is it a pet, you own /look after/feed and home, or a wild animal . You can no longer have it both ways.

Hol

8,359 posts

199 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
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"it's not an owned pet, but a wild animal"

Who actually says that???

I can imagine a farmer coming out with it, if you asked them.