Planning - Legal advice regarded urgently.

[disad-vantage-d]

elanfan said:

What's the betting they want to change the use to house young offenders or yoofs with 'behaviour' problems and your low crime rate and anti social stuff will go through the roof.

Trouble is no-one wants it on their doorstep!

As I said in my original post, I did not want this to gravitate towards a moratorium about the actual use of the premises and concentrate on the concerns regarding the planning process.
However, you have scored a bullseye...

[Shilvers]

disad-vantage-d said:

We believe they have done the absolute minimum required in order to minimise the exposure of the proposed change of use,
in the knowledge that otherwise there would be considerable public objection.

That's probably true. No consolation, but that happens a lot. Where do you draw the line? Notifying people within a radius? Across the street? They will do the minimum to minimise cost and hassle.

Considerable public objection just means it may have to go to a planning committee, who will either back the recommendation of the Planning Officer or reject it. If you feel so inclined, post relevant, unbiased information through peoples letterboxes, directing them to where they can comment on the proposal (don't say 'object', you're just making people aware)

Emailing or writing to local councillors and getting them onside will also help your cause.

Good luck

[Hub]

Shilvers said:

Considerable public objection just means it may have to go to a planning committee, who will either back the recommendation of the Planning Officer or reject it. If you feel so inclined, post relevant, unbiased information through peoples letterboxes, directing them to where they can comment on the proposal (don't say 'object', you're just making people aware)

Emailing or writing to local councillors and getting them onside will also help your cause.

Good luck

...and think of some good planning reasons to object to it in that location, not just I don't want this next to me!

[Red Devil]

disad-vantage-d said:

Which Ombudsman would that be?

This one - http://www.lgo.org.uk/ and have a look at this link too - http://www.lgo.org.uk/CouncilsPerformance/
You can find out how many complaints and enquiries have been made (including planning) about your local LA.

[Vron]

Sounds strange - we have an application in at present to re-develop a 1950's commercial building into same but with single storey flats on top and a larger footprint. The Council have bent over backwards for the local residents and have put the decision back three times now (was supposed to be July it is now possibly October).

There are many online objections (some cranks saying endangered species such as foxes and squirrels will be affected) and that I am on the local planning committee so it's an inside job (lol). Plus 'rent an objector' (you have to put your address on) who live nowhere near the development.

[Red Devil]

Hub said:

...and think of some good planning reasons to object to it in that location, not just I don't want this next to me!

^^This^^

A great many objections fail because they are not based on purely planning grounds/criteria. You MUST do your homework on what constitutes a valid reason for refusal. The proposed clientele is not one of them!

[terry tibbs]

http://www.rtpi.org.uk/

you could always go here and get professional advice they used to have planing aid, you may not qualify

as someone who is professionally involved in planning (but not this field) i don't much care for your comments about it all being one sided it isn't, its far from perfect, but its not that bad either, at least you are allowed to be involved

you could go to the planning office make an appointment and sit and read the application and the supporting statements, it should be on line anyway via the LPA web site

[anonymous-user]

Posting on a car website won't get you very far, OP. If enough people are concerned, club together and hire a planning lawyer or planning consultant to make focused objections based on relevant planning criteria.

[disad-vantage-d]

terry tibbs said:

i don't much care for your comments about it all being one sided it isn't, its far from perfect, but its not that bad either, at least you are allowed to be involved

Well, the applicant can appeal if the decision does not go their way, yet the objector(s) cannot. That's about as one sided as you can get?

But thanks for your input, as to everyone else who has commented.

[loafer123]

Breadvan72 said:

Posting on a car website won't get you very far, OP. If enough people are concerned, club together and hire a planning lawyer or planning consultant to make focused objections based on relevant planning criteria.

You often provide legal views with your professonal knowledge, and experienced property professionals, of which there are many on here, do the same.

In both cases the advice is well informed but I agree that people should also take independent advice armed with the information from here when doing so.

[ging84]

disad-vantage-d said:

Well, the applicant can appeal if the decision does not go their way, yet the objector(s) cannot. That's about as one sided as you can get?

But thanks for your input, as to everyone else who has commented.

If you have objected you can challenge a decision if the proper legal processes have not been followed.

[Shilvers]

disad-vantage-d said:

terry tibbs said:

i don't much care for your comments about it all being one sided it isn't, its far from perfect, but its not that bad either, at least you are allowed to be involved

Well, the applicant can appeal if the decision does not go their way, yet the objector(s) cannot. That's about as one sided as you can get?

But thanks for your input, as to everyone else who has commented.

Whatever you may think, all the Planning Officer, or if it goes to committee, the committee members are doing are applying the planning laws sent down from local government. It's not in the PO or committees interest to rule on a situation with their hearts. The applicant then, quite rightly, takes it to appeal and wins, which costs the council (and you the taxpayer) all sorts of money, including the costs of the applicant if successful. Ok, that isn't going to be millions in this situation, but for huge developments, it can run into a substantial sum, so every decision needs sound reasoning behind it, based on planning law.

As has been said, do your research, and object on planning grounds. If the applicant is successful, I'm afraid the chances are that it doesn't breach any planning regs (whether those regs. are just and fair are another discussion completely and not the fault of the PO) If the applicant's not successful but the reasons for refusal don't have a sound basis, the applicant could appeal and no one either on the council or the committee wants that, so it's very much in everyones interest to get it right first time round.

[JustinP1]

Breadvan72 said:

Posting on a car website won't get you very far, OP. If enough people are concerned, club together and hire a planning lawyer or planning consultant to make focused objections based on relevant planning criteria.

This OP.

If your fears are real, and there is the support that you say and you all fell strongly about it, if you all put £100 in a pot, you can employ a planning consultant, or a more law based one as BV has said.

They will go through the case, and get more truth out in one hour than you will with dozens of hours of research.

They'll also advise on the best way forward, and can represent you all in terms of advising on how to object to make a difference, and even make representations themselves.


If you need names, I can tell you the consultant I used, and also a planning lawyer with rights of audience through higher courts that is very knowledgable. The latter is west mids based.

If you don't do that, and you go the tub thumping route - you have limited odds of success. In my very local area I've just seen a group of 100 'supporters' dwindle away and lose their fight miserably because the ringleader didn't know what he was talking about, and alienated the whole group through allegations of impropriety at various council levels.

If you all really care, get proper advice.

[anonymous-user]

Ranty allegations are indeed counter productive. A skilled adviser will identify the real planning points and bin the stuff that the authority can't take into account.

[JustinP1]

Breadvan72 said:

Ranty allegations are indeed counter productive. A skilled adviser will identify the real planning points and bin the stuff that the authority can't take into account.

Yep.

I recently sat in on a Parish Council meeting where a dozen residents who apparently represented 100 more bleated on about a very tenuous link how planning permission for three houses would apparently knock tens of thousands of pounds off each of their houses.

They had petitions online, they've invested in printing up 8 foot wide canvas banners which now blight the village...

...but no-one has actually engaged a professional to obtain advice and representation.

It's what you need, OP.

Local NIMBYS thumping a tub will get you no-where (unless you by chance are hitting exactly in the right place). The type of thing that will actually affect an application would be the decision of the Planning Inspectorate on 17th June 2014 in support of a rejection by Lincolnshire County Council on planning application 12345B2.

You'll never know that, but the planning consultant/lawyer will. That's what you pay the money for.

[Red Devil]

JustinP1 said:

Yep.

I recently sat in on a Parish Council meeting where a dozen residents who apparently represented 100 more bleated on about a very tenuous link how planning permission for three houses would apparently knock tens of thousands of pounds off each of their houses.

They had petitions online, they've invested in printing up 8 foot wide canvas banners which now blight the village...

...but no-one has actually engaged a professional to obtain advice and representation.

I'm always amazed by how many people make the mistake of failing to grasp that a diminution in property values is not a ground for objecting to a planning application. A shame the residents you speak of didn't invest 30 seconds online before wasting time with their petition.

Issues such as loss of view, or negative effect on the value of properties are not material considerations.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/general/faq/faqap...

[Devil2575]

Does anyone here see an issue with people having an objection based in Nimbyism employing a professional to try and find another valid way to block a planning application?

If people have a valid reason to object then great, but to try to find technicalities to try and hold a process up because of an unrelated objection sounds very much like the actions of a trouble maker.

I speak as someone who lives close to a planned housing development and several wind turbine applications. The real objections are all based around concerns over maintaining property prices, predominantly from people who have expensive (£300K+) properties, but all sorts of other rubbish is regularly spouted. Thankfully after a couple of years they have finally been told to fk off and the housing development is going ahead. The wind turbine issue has a while to run yet.

[Duke147]

It's worth bearing in mind that planning is a legal, not democratic, process. Councillors are not allowed to make a decision solely on the grounds of popularity and must set aside their own feelings on every case. They have to give very legally robust reasons for refusing planning consent. I am afraid that if the removal of the restriction fits within their own policies then they have no grounds for refusal. It might be an idea to get hold of a copy of the original planning officers' report - the full thing, not just the decision notice - to see if there were reasons given for applying the restriction at the time. These reasons may still stand.

I would suggest, as others before me have, that you get together in the village and employ your own planning consultant/solicitor with a specialism in planning. They will be able to talk to the planners in their own language and put your case across better,.

Good luck

[JustinP1]

Devil2575 said:

Does anyone here see an issue with people having an objection based in Nimbyism employing a professional to try and find another valid way to block a planning application?

If people have a valid reason to object then great, but to try to find technicalities to try and hold a process up because of an unrelated objection sounds very much like the actions of a trouble maker.

Does a developer's Design and Access planning statement in support of an application come out with the obvious "I want to build as I want to make money. Lots of it."?

Of course not. But that's the truth.

The design an access statement will be full of all sorts of argument why the proposed development adhered to local and national rules to improve society.


In the same way the NIMBY objector doesn't actually give a stuff about bats and newt migration, the distance to a bus stop and the distance to the nearest school. But if he is intelligent, he plays the same game as the developer, and he plays the game by the rules and like the developer supplies his own consultant to argue the other side.

[Devil2575]

But it is all just a game though isn't it.

There is no such thing as a developer that doesn't want to make money, that's a given*, and i'm sure they need to employ people to make sure they jump through all the hoops and comply with all the requirements. I'm not sure that's the same as objecting for one reason but them employing someone to trawl through the process to look for other ways to block it.
While I appreciate local people may have reasons that seem very valid to them to object, you only have to scan my local paper to realise that every single major development in the area has a group of people who object and are trying to block it. I wonder how much this process costs the country?
I'm not advocating a system like China where local people are just bulldozed out of houses to make way for new development but it seems that in the UK we struggle to get anything done in a timely fashion because everyone objects to anything being built near to them.

• Awaits tales of altruistic developers