A cautionary tale...
Discussion
I'd like to post this story up - I'd be interested in knowing what others would do in this situation. I'm not convinced the police will be interested given there disinterest in all things civil/fraud.
A colleague of mine had some patio work done. It was to a very good standard, to the point where I was happy to reuse the guy without getting competitive quotes.
I rang the mobile number on his website - it's quite often when I ring trades that answer-phone kicks in because they're up a ladder etc. I leave a message with my name and number. The guy (Lets call him Alex) has a sizeable reputable firm.
I get a callback the next day from his sales guy (Craig), from a different number. He offers to come round, measure up and quote. He comes round, measures up and quotes. He sends a quote for laying the patio via text, starting with 'hi it's Craig from alex _ paving'. I instruct him to proceed. All msgs are via text from this point onward. All messages from Craig refer to Alex's firm or alex himself.
The work is done, ok but not great, the slabs I sourced and look amazing so I ask him about payment. He texts me a bank account in a womens name, again referencing Alex's firm. A bit odd but not inconceivable given company secretary's etc.
Three months later I ring the number on Alex's website again as with hindsight I'm not happy - the pointing is failing and the patio is a bit uneven. Alex offers to come round straightaway, apologising profusely. When I tell him my address he seems confused... When I mention Craig he says 'I've never employed anyone called Craig...'
I check through my text messages/emails again. All from Craig and referring to alex. I google the womens name I paid, 192.com shows an address, with a co-occupant of Craig ___. I google Craig ___ and he was convicted of fraud in my town and sent to prison three years ago (since released). I get alex to come round and tell him the story.
Alex and I come to the conclusion that either Alex's mobile answerphone has been hacked or one of his firm has been leaking potential customers to a rival gang. Alex is, to put it mildly, unhappy that his reputation is being sullied by someone doing jobs in his name (which they had to be because they have to keep up the charade).
Craig's phone # doesn't work and my patio needs re-laying. Alex is shall we say well-built and has Craig's name, address, and copies of every email and text.
I can't believe the above story myself but I assure you it is true. What happens next?
A colleague of mine had some patio work done. It was to a very good standard, to the point where I was happy to reuse the guy without getting competitive quotes.
I rang the mobile number on his website - it's quite often when I ring trades that answer-phone kicks in because they're up a ladder etc. I leave a message with my name and number. The guy (Lets call him Alex) has a sizeable reputable firm.
I get a callback the next day from his sales guy (Craig), from a different number. He offers to come round, measure up and quote. He comes round, measures up and quotes. He sends a quote for laying the patio via text, starting with 'hi it's Craig from alex _ paving'. I instruct him to proceed. All msgs are via text from this point onward. All messages from Craig refer to Alex's firm or alex himself.
The work is done, ok but not great, the slabs I sourced and look amazing so I ask him about payment. He texts me a bank account in a womens name, again referencing Alex's firm. A bit odd but not inconceivable given company secretary's etc.
Three months later I ring the number on Alex's website again as with hindsight I'm not happy - the pointing is failing and the patio is a bit uneven. Alex offers to come round straightaway, apologising profusely. When I tell him my address he seems confused... When I mention Craig he says 'I've never employed anyone called Craig...'
I check through my text messages/emails again. All from Craig and referring to alex. I google the womens name I paid, 192.com shows an address, with a co-occupant of Craig ___. I google Craig ___ and he was convicted of fraud in my town and sent to prison three years ago (since released). I get alex to come round and tell him the story.
Alex and I come to the conclusion that either Alex's mobile answerphone has been hacked or one of his firm has been leaking potential customers to a rival gang. Alex is, to put it mildly, unhappy that his reputation is being sullied by someone doing jobs in his name (which they had to be because they have to keep up the charade).
Craig's phone # doesn't work and my patio needs re-laying. Alex is shall we say well-built and has Craig's name, address, and copies of every email and text.
I can't believe the above story myself but I assure you it is true. What happens next?
Edited by jamesc_1729 on Wednesday 17th September 19:05
V8RX7 said:
Police won't care in the least.
Nor will Trading Standards etc
Best chance of justice is Alex paying him a visit but in reality as Alex won't want to go to court etc I doubt Craig will even get a slap.
I agree with your assessment of the situation, but for Alex, how many £100ks of work has he lost and also how many people think they have an Alex patio who don't have.Nor will Trading Standards etc
Best chance of justice is Alex paying him a visit but in reality as Alex won't want to go to court etc I doubt Craig will even get a slap.
I guess the question here has been answered - I have no comeback since as someone else said I paid for a patio and received one, but before you had read this, if you received a callback from an answerphone message you left, would you ever think to doubt it? Hence the cautionary aspect....
V8RX7 said:
Police won't care in the least.
Nor will Trading Standards etc
Well if they don't, neither are doing their job, and you can report that too!Nor will Trading Standards etc
It is fraud by false representation, clearly a police matter, although these days they will try to palm you off to Action Fraud or whatever they call it.
Complain under the Supply of Goods and Services act about the work (small claims court). Obvious if you can't track who to complain to then that is a Police matter (and possibly under fraud) if the person has prior convictions I'm sure they will be interested. That is their job.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/how-...
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/how-...
jamesc_1729 said:
I'm not convinced the police will be interested given there disinterest in all things civil/fraud.
V8RX7 said:
Police won't care in the least.
jamesc_1729 said:
I google Craig and he was convicted of fraud in my town and sent to prison three years ago (since released).
How did that occur before then? A private prosecution? Mr GrimNasty said:
It is fraud by false representation, clearly a police matter, although these days they will try to palm you off to Action Fraud or whatever they call it.
Yes, the specific 'agency' funded and setup by the Government to deal with fraud. Mr GrimNasty said:
they will try to palm you off to Action Fraud or whatever they call it.
Well, considering Action Fraud were specifically set up to deal with, wait for it, fraud (the clue is in the name), it might be a good place to start. It's like saying "they're palming that man with a broken leg off to A&E" Action fraud collate information and if there is sufficient, they pass it back to the local police to deal with the initial offence. It takes a lot of work off response officers.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
they will try to palm you off to Action Fraud or whatever they call it.
Well, considering Action Fraud were specifically set up to deal with, wait for it, fraud (the clue is in the name), it might be a good place to start. It's like saying "they're palming that man with a broken leg off to A&E" Action fraud collate information and if there is sufficient, they pass it back to the local police to deal with the initial offence. It takes a lot of work off response officers.
They are far more interested in 'collating intelligence' and dealing with more organized fraud.
So yes it is palming off.
Mr GrimNasty said:
It's yet one more thing that the regular police don't deal with. It means INDIVIDUAL cases are far less likely to be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted.
They are far more interested in 'collating intelligence' and dealing with more organized fraud.
So yes it is palming off.
Yes. One less thing to counteract the one more thing that gets added constantly.They are far more interested in 'collating intelligence' and dealing with more organized fraud.
So yes it is palming off.
They collate the information, and if there is enough, they pass it back to the police to continue. So no, not palming off.
If anything the victim gets a better level of service as they have a designated investigation team rather than an overworked officer who is trying to squeeze the fraud in amongst his/her numerous other jobs.
Can't offer any advice but a similar thing happened to me some years ago. I called a tree surgeon on my mobile to remove some large trees in my back garden. The giy I called said he would call in the following week to give a quote. A couple of days later while I was at work, two big blokes came claiming to be from the same company and spoke to my ex. She let them in and they started work there and then. They did an awful job. They actually damaged a cherry tree that I did want to keep.
As we weren't expecting them so soon, we didn't have any money on hand so they said they would come back later for payment. I called the guy to ask what was going on and he knew nothing of it. It wasn't him or anyone that worked for him. He suspected that some travellers were in the area intercepting mobile calls. If someone calls asking for a job to be done, they turn up sharpish, bodge it, get the cash and move on before anyone knows anything about it.
I called in some big mates for when they came for their money. I said I wans't happy, accused them of fraud and they left empty handed (after seeing the back up I had.) A bit risky but nothing ever came of it in the end.
As we weren't expecting them so soon, we didn't have any money on hand so they said they would come back later for payment. I called the guy to ask what was going on and he knew nothing of it. It wasn't him or anyone that worked for him. He suspected that some travellers were in the area intercepting mobile calls. If someone calls asking for a job to be done, they turn up sharpish, bodge it, get the cash and move on before anyone knows anything about it.
I called in some big mates for when they came for their money. I said I wans't happy, accused them of fraud and they left empty handed (after seeing the back up I had.) A bit risky but nothing ever came of it in the end.
Mk3Spitfire said:
La Liga said:
Hindsight sarcasm.
Fair play to you, for working out what he meant. Is he saying that HE was being sarcastic? And thus doesn't believe the police palm things off to AF?Mr GrimNasty said:
It's yet one more thing that the regular police don't deal with.
What are the other things? Policing numbers haven't increased in-line with technological crime. There isn't the capacity to deal with every fraud.
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