questions regarding NIPI

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red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
I'll try and keep this simple;
BMW compact in mrs name, MOT expired.
Car not required any more - add placed on eBay 31st July
Contacted by interested party on 1st August - he is local & wants to view
interested party comes to look at car (at my house)
I explicitly state that it has no MOT (it's been garaged out of use for a couple of months)
Offers me a sum slightly below BIN price on eBay
We accept terms - he gives me cash, fills in V5C with his details(Trader), and says he will come back in 2 hours with driver and trade plate to collect the car
I move the car off my drive.
He pics up car as advised.
I send V5C off to DLVA
on the 7th August I receive a NIP (bedfordshire 65 in 50)
I send back NIP with new keepers details filled in
Yesterday (17/09) I receive the NIP back stating that the person of the details I gave them is denying owning the car on the date of the offence, and that they require proof of who owned the car on the date of the offence.
Now, the DVLA slip that the previous keeper gets back does not state the date that the car was sold / transferred.
I have emailed the buyer, asking him to confirm his details, who states - I quote -
HI,I SOLD IT AND POSTED THE V5 OFF TO DVLA.THERE WAS TO MUCH WORK TO GET THROUGH FOR AN MOT WHITCH YOU KNEW ABOUT HAVING HAD IT TESTED,NOT LETTING ON IN YOUR ADVERT OR TELLING ME.THE DVLA HAS THE NEW KEEPERS RECORDS.
I can prove that me & the Mrs were no where near Bedfordshire at the time of the offence - we were in fact in Essex and have time & geotagged photos to back it up.

Advice on how to proceed ?
I have 6 days to respond to camera enforcers.

original Ad here
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-316i-Compact-metalli...

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
I'd send it back again telling them you sold the car on the date you did (and that DVLA cannot provide proof) AND stating that you have proof that you were elsewhere at the time of the offence.

V8forweekends

2,481 posts

123 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
Just copy and send the receipt you got for the sale - job done.

red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
receipt doesn't have his signature on it, only the trader details that I've already sent to camera enforcement;
anyone know if DVLA can produce anything that shows actual date of change of ownership?
(I can't call them today)

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
You do not have to prove who owned the car. It is enough for you to be able ti disprove that you were driving it.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
red997 said:
anyone know if DVLA can produce anything that shows actual date of change of ownership?
The V5C that you filled in and sent back has the date of change of keeper on it. The original of that is scanned and archived.

red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
thanks for all the responses;
backs up what I was hoping was true;
I could spend £2.50 with the DVLA for release of information;
or I could just push it all back the the Scamera department...
hmmm what to do... ;-)

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
I assume the OP did the paperwork correctly - i.e. HE sent the V5C/3 (yellow slip) to Swansea. He has received the NoIP because at the time of the alleged offence DVLA records appear to still have him as the RK. S.172 requires him to provide the name of the driver. WTF has ownership got to do with it? He has provided the required information to the best of his knowledge and belief by giving the (business?) name of the trader. What the latter may subsequently have done with the vehicle is irrelevant to the NoIP issued to the OP. Ownership/RK has no bearing on a speeding charge. Only the driver can be prosecuted for that.

Not quite the same situation but this thread may be relevant - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=108... - the OP can't be done for failing to name.

My suggestion is that he writes to the SCP or whoever inviting them to desist. He has fulfilled his legal obligations re S.172 and can prove he was elsewhere should they try to prosecute him for speeding (which in fact they can't because he is not going to admit to being the driver). They are wasting his time and public money by continuing to hassle him.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
I received a NIP a few years back from the Midlands somewhere.

I wrote back saying it could not be me because I was in Poole at the time and had proof.

I never heard anything back.

Assume it was either a mistake or a cloned reg.

As has been said OP, proof that it was not you should suffice.

red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil
thanks
yes I did return the yellow slip promptly.
And cancelled the insurance.

I have done all I could.

I have just written a letter (on behalf of my wife who is currently at work)to the NoIP office, stating that She wasn't the driver, we can prove this, that the DVLA were notified of change of keeper, and that I suggest they contact the DVLA to pursue this further.
David

EU_Foreigner

2,833 posts

225 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
So the new owner managed to get it through the MOT then smile

red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
who knows
the email I got from the buyer suggests he thought that there was too much work to undertake, so sold it on.
I suspect that this is why he is not owning up to being the driver of the car at the time of the offence - my suspicion is that the car would have had no MOT.
it could however have been on trade plates - I did sell it to a motor trader

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
red997 said:
the email I got from the buyer suggests he thought that there was too much work to undertake, so sold it on.
I suspect that this is why he is not owning up to being the driver of the car at the time of the offence
So instead of denying all knowledge and passing the buck back to you, he should put the details of the person he sold it on to on the NIP... Oh, wait... "A man in a pub"?

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
the email I got from the buyer suggests he thought that there was too much work to undertake, so sold it on.
I suspect that this is why he is not owning up to being the driver of the car at the time of the offence
So instead of denying all knowledge and passing the buck back to you, he should put the details of the person he sold it on to on the NIP... Oh, wait... "A man in a pub"?
Yes, he should if he received a NoIP after being named by the OP and the alleged offence was after he sold the vehicle on.

If it was prior, he (or one of his staff) has been naughty, and he is simply trying it on. It doesn't change the fact that the SCP/Police are pursuing the wrong quarry. The V5C/3 will have been signed and dated by both parties. That will be the effective date of transfer, which is when the OP ceased to be the RK. Of course the SCP are relying on DVLA records which we all know take weeks to update. I don't know if DVLA retain completed V5C/3s for any length of time. If push comes to shove perhaps the OP could request that document as evidence in any court proceedings?

OP - do you have a photocopy of the V5C/3? I'm totally anal about dealing with the DVLA. If it involves a paper document I keep copies of everything. My records contain this for every vehicle I have owned and either sold or scrapped during the last 6 years. For my D/L I have copies of them all since the DVLA came into existence plus the original booklet style one issued by my local County Council over 50 years ago! Unfortunately the one thing I don't have is my test pass certificate so if they were to censored up my entitlements at the next change/renewal I'm going to be stuffed.


red997

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

208 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
I've written back to the scamera company saying basically do one - I'm not responsible ; contact DVLA.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the v5c - wish I did !
however, I'm confident in the dates, and coupled with the fact that I can prove we were in a different county that day, I have no worries.

I agree - yes it would be so much easier if the purchaser form me would have put his buyer on the NoIP - but that would have been the honest thing to do...