Driving with no licence on a motorway

[Nigel Worc's]

mph1977 said:

Vipers said:

In 1970 in the forces, I held a motorcycle licence only. When I joined the FCDT, I was told I was the truck driver, not having a licence I applied for a car provisional, which allowed me to obtain an HGV provisional, and in those days I think an HGV learner was allowed on motorways.

After getting the HGV provisional never having driven a car done a 4 week driving course in a 3 tonner, passed and of course got a car licence and HGV3

So in theory, I was allowed to take an HGV on the motorway never having ever driven a car.

Anyway I went from a bike licence to HGV3 which covered a car, hence I have never taken a test in a car.

Not sure what the position is these days.

currently you must have a full cat B licence before you can get a Group 2 provisional.

the only thing you can 'skip' is C1/D1 and B+E

you have to go B-C-C+E or B-D-D+E

Even the military ?

In the 70's they tested themselves, weren't subject to age limits, could issue RAF C class licences at will to people who hadn't driven before etc etc etc.

I think the GPO used to do similar things.

[DJFish]

LoonR1 said:

My comment was about the OP's original old fella, not this one that DJ Fish has just brought into the conversation.

You're absolutely right.
Jeff, for that was his name, would be knocking on 90 if he's still going.

This chap in the OPs post, let's call him Not Jeff would have to be of a similar age so it's highly unlikely the same situation applies so I'll shut up.....

[mph1977]

Nigel Worc's said:

mph1977 said:

Vipers said:

In 1970 in the forces, I held a motorcycle licence only. When I joined the FCDT, I was told I was the truck driver, not having a licence I applied for a car provisional, which allowed me to obtain an HGV provisional, and in those days I think an HGV learner was allowed on motorways.

After getting the HGV provisional never having driven a car done a 4 week driving course in a 3 tonner, passed and of course got a car licence and HGV3

So in theory, I was allowed to take an HGV on the motorway never having ever driven a car.

Anyway I went from a bike licence to HGV3 which covered a car, hence I have never taken a test in a car.

Not sure what the position is these days.

currently you must have a full cat B licence before you can get a Group 2 provisional.

the only thing you can 'skip' is C1/D1 and B+E

you have to go B-C-C+E or B-D-D+E

Even the military ?

In the 70's they tested themselves, weren't subject to age limits, could issue RAF C class licences at will to people who hadn't driven before etc etc etc.

I think the GPO used to do similar things.

Crown Exemption disappeared a long time ago, andw ith the decrease in the age limits for civilian Group 2 licences to 18 anyway ( YDS and now post driver CPC) that legally provided variation isn't often needed.

in house DSA examiners are still allowed for group 2 as i understand it.

[Nigel Worc's]

mph1977 said:

Crown Exemption disappeared a long time ago, andw ith the decrease in the age limits for civilian Group 2 licences to 18 anyway ( YDS and now post driver CPC) that legally provided variation isn't often needed.

in house DSA examiners are still allowed for group 2 as i understand it.

Crown exemption may well be gone, but WE are still here, and using the licences gained via that exemption (well the ones DVLA haven't nicked in my own case)!

[Red Devil]

LoonR1 said:

My comment was about the OP's original old fella, not this one that DJ Fish has just brought into the conversation.

ISWYM. It's not unbelievable though. It would certainly be possible for him to be in his late 80s.

The AA said:

Facts about older drivers: by 2009 17% of the UK population were over 65 and 12% of these over 85, and the population had grown. The proportion of older people with driving licences has risen from 15 to 57% in the same period.

The official estimate of the UK population was 64 million as at 1st July 2013. Using the 2009 figures above, 12% of 17% of that total is 1.3 million. That may now have gone up because with an ageing population and longer life expectancy the percentage is likely to grow over time. So the number of over 85s still driving may not be as rare as you might think.

[Foppo]

Not a good idea driving without a licence or provisional licence on the motorway.

Is about time that driving instructors are allowed to take learner drivers on the Motorway.It should be part of the driving lesson experience.No excuse to say I live miles away from M/Ways I don't need it.

[TooMany2cvs]

Foppo said:

Is about time that driving instructors are allowed to take learner drivers on the Motorway.It should be part of the driving lesson experience.No excuse to say I live miles away from M/Ways I don't need it.

Driving instructors can take people for motorway lessons. Mine did, the week after I passed my test.

Unless you make the test include some kind of motorway practical, then enabling L-platers to use m'ways will add nothing. Some instructors will, just as some do now, whilst many won't.

And if it IS part of the test, then that brings serious disparity into the test for many. There are - with non-trivial populations - places in this country that are several hours from the nearest bit of motorway. How do you factor that in? No test centre within a couple of hours of them? Or a half-day-plus driving test during which they drive to and from the motorway for most of the time?

[LoonR1]

The driving test was introduced in 1935. So anyone who was under 17 then had to take a test if they wanted to drive when they reached 17. You'd have to be 96 or older to not have had to have taken a test.

Im not sure about the wartime suspension, but would guess that they were caught up on or licences granted as an amnesty.

Edited by LoonR1 on Monday 22 September 09:45

[TooMany2cvs]

LoonR1 said:

The drivig test wasn't reduced in 1935.

Do you use speech-recognition, Loon?

[LoonR1]

TooMany2cvs said:

Do you use speech-recognition, Loon?

Bugger. I'll edit it. Fat fingers, small keyboard.

[Aretnap]

LoonR1 said:

The driving test was introduced in 1935. So anyone who was under 17 then had to take a test if they wanted to drive when they reached 17. You'd have to be 96 or older to not have had to have taken a test.

Im not sure about the wartime suspension, but would guess that they were caught up on or licences granted as an amnesty. .

AIUI during the war it just went back to the situation where you could get a full licence by applying for one - no need to pass a test. Driving tests were still a fairly new thing in 1939, so scrapping them would not have been seen as such a drastic step as it would today. So anyone who was 17 in 1946 (or 85 today) could potentially have never passed a driving test. Fairly old still to be driving - but not ridiculously so. I have a great aunt who was finally persuaded to give up driving in her early 90s - I should ask her when she got her licence.

In fact "on 18 February 1947, a period of 1 year was granted for wartime provisional licences to be converted into full licence without passing the test." - Link

[LoonR1]

So it was an amnesty. Those applying for a licence would still have a licence though so the old fella in the OPs story wouldn't qualify for grandfather rights unless he is at least 96 years old. There would be no reason for him to only have a provisional other than he hasn't taken a test when he's required to.

[LoonR1]

Can we knock this red herring on the head now and get back to the original question?

[Red Devil]

LoonR1 said:

The driving test was introduced in 1935. So anyone who was under 17 then had to take a test if they wanted to drive when they reached 17. You'd have to be 96 or older to not have had to have taken a test.

Im not sure about the wartime suspension, but would guess that they were caught up on or licences granted as an amnesty.

My mother was also a volunteer ambulance driver during WW2 (she was 24 at the time - I doubt DH Fish's chap was 15: unless he lied about his age to the authorities I reckon he would have been a couple of years older than that). She had never driven a vehicle prior to hostilities and was given some rudimentary training. Tests were suspended throughout WW2 and were not reintroduced until 1946. She was given a temporary wartime provisional licence and took advantage of the post-war concession to convert to a full one without ever having to take a formal driving test.

See - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/history...

The nature of her work meant she acquired more than a little skill set.

[Vipers]

Foppo said:

Not a good idea driving without a licence or provisional licence on the motorway.

Is about time that driving instructors are allowed to take learner drivers on the Motorway. It should be part of the driving lesson experience. No excuse to say I live miles away from M/Ways I don't need it.

What's the difference between motorway driving v two lane dual carriageways?

Up here our dual,carriageway has slip roads like motorways, speed limit is the same, very busy at peak times, so apart from no roundabouts on motorways, what really is different.

Quite a lot of the M74 only has two lanes as well.

I am sure there are places in Great Britain where learner don't even go on dual carriageways as there arnt any.

In my opinion one thing they should improve on is reversing skills.

[alangla]

Looking at the list of driving test centres, there's plenty of places you could do a driving test without seeing a roundabout or traffic lights, never mind a motorway. Personally I reckon there's a case for allowing provisional licence holders on motorways with an ADI, not totally sold on a non-ADI supervising driver though.

[Chipmunk1]

Well I told him the following applies, is that right ?



Section 87(1) Road Traffic Act 1988Penalty 3-6 penalty points and/or disqualification. Fine up to £1000. Points added to his provisional licence so they transfer across when he passes his test and a means tested fine + victim surcharge.

[ziontrain]

FWIW my granddad (86) learnt to drive with either the fire brigade or one of the forces, got his license approved during the previously mentioned concessions and has never passed a driving test. Sometimes you can tell

[Vaud]

alangla said:

Looking at the list of driving test centres, there's plenty of places you could do a driving test without seeing a roundabout or traffic lights, never mind a motorway. Personally I reckon there's a case for allowing provisional licence holders on motorways with an ADI, not totally sold on a non-ADI supervising driver though.

No motorways in Dorset for example.

[Vipers]

Vaud said:

alangla said:

Looking at the list of driving test centres, there's plenty of places you could do a driving test without seeing a roundabout or traffic lights, never mind a motorway. Personally I reckon there's a case for allowing provisional licence holders on motorways with an ADI, not totally sold on a non-ADI supervising driver though.

No motorways in Dorset for example.

Or the Shetlands, Highlands, Isle of Wight,