Store security - what powers, if any?
Discussion
Hi
My local supermarket has slashed the number of manned tills and replaced them with 4 self service ones watched over by uniformed security people, a small number of whom seem to think they are Robocop and glare at the customers at close range through dark glasses
Im surprised the manager tolerates this, and hes just lost a customer in me, but what powers do security staff at supermarkets etc actually have to detain you?
I would imagine the catch all is the "reasonable grounds" thing but I dont know how this translates into practical law
If I get challenged I imagine failing to engage with him would then give reasonable grounds to do whatever he fancies
But assuming Im innocent how can he make the initial "reasonable grounds" accusation as I wouldnt have actually put anything up my jumper?
Or is looking like the sort of person who posts topics like this reasonable grounds too?
Dont get me wrong, Im not a shoplifter and Im not about to leg it when asked to show the young man the contents of my shopping bag - but what would happen if I decided I wasnt going to talk to him and tried to leave the shop getting roughed up in the process of being detained?
Cheers
I'm sure there used to be a sign saying customers using the self service tills agree to random bag searches or similar wording at my local supermarket. It might even be on the screen before you scan your first item. I would have thought thats there to allow them to check youve paid for everything? I would guess that they wouldn't use bouncer levels of force but just follow you to your car and report the reg number to the police if you refused to stop?
numtumfutunch said:
My local supermarket has slashed the number of manned tills and replaced them with 4 self service ones watched over by uniformed security people, a small number of whom seem to think they are Robocop and glare at the customers at close range through dark glasses
Im surprised the manager tolerates this, and hes just lost a customer in me ...
Have you spoken to him or her about this?Im surprised the manager tolerates this, and hes just lost a customer in me ...
PS New Moon just about now, by the way
.PACE said:
Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1)A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
They have the same powers as anyone else. It's much more limited than the powers a Constable has. (1)A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
One of the following needs to be present, too:
Necessity Test said:
(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person; (b) suffering physical injury; (c) causing loss of or damage to property; or (d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
Security guards have no power to search you / your bags etc. Being a guard myself in retail i'll answer that for you, Security have no more powers than you average joe on the street. We have to work on civil law. We have no powers to search unless we gain consent of who we are searching. If we make a stop and detain a person we would of had to follow a process called SCONE, Selection Concealment Observation Non-payment Exit.
In my opinion the law favors the criminal, in theory someone could walk out of the store exit with items in their hand, and according to the law i would of had to see them pick the items off the shelf to be able to ask them to stop.
In my opinion the law favors the criminal, in theory someone could walk out of the store exit with items in their hand, and according to the law i would of had to see them pick the items off the shelf to be able to ask them to stop.
TNTom said:
Being a guard myself in retail i'll answer that for you, Security have no more powers than you average joe on the street. We have to work on civil law. We have no powers to search unless we gain consent of who we are searching. If we make a stop and detain a person we would of had to follow a process called SCONE, Selection Concealment Observation Non-payment Exit.
In my opinion the law favors the criminal, in theory someone could walk out of the store exit with items in their hand, and according to the law i would of had to see them pick the items off the shelf to be able to ask them to stop.
Thanks for that, I sense the frustrationIn my opinion the law favors the criminal, in theory someone could walk out of the store exit with items in their hand, and according to the law i would of had to see them pick the items off the shelf to be able to ask them to stop.
Is the following also true?:
1) A constable can arrest you on suspicion of committing a crime. So if he's followed you around the store and "thinks" you've stolen something, he can arrest you.
2) Anyone who isn't a constable can only reasonably attempt to arrest you if they actually observe you stealing. If they try to arrest you on suspicion, they're on rather dodgy ground with respect to assault etc?
I understood the above was why a store detective / security guard has to be careful and will usually wait until you've left the store with the goods before attempting an arrest. They'd far rather intimidate you into putting it back on the shelf or not attempting to steal it in the first place, by following you around and making their presence obvious to you? Hence why the OP has hostile looking deterrents at the self checkouts?
1) A constable can arrest you on suspicion of committing a crime. So if he's followed you around the store and "thinks" you've stolen something, he can arrest you.
2) Anyone who isn't a constable can only reasonably attempt to arrest you if they actually observe you stealing. If they try to arrest you on suspicion, they're on rather dodgy ground with respect to assault etc?
I understood the above was why a store detective / security guard has to be careful and will usually wait until you've left the store with the goods before attempting an arrest. They'd far rather intimidate you into putting it back on the shelf or not attempting to steal it in the first place, by following you around and making their presence obvious to you? Hence why the OP has hostile looking deterrents at the self checkouts?
TNTom said:
In my opinion the law favors the criminal, in theory someone could walk out of the store exit with items in their hand, and according to the law i would of had to see them pick the items off the shelf to be able to ask them to stop.
That's not true. It doesn't specify the practicalities / components of what forms the "reasonable suspicion". All it says is what I quoted above.
I've stopped using our local ASDA because they have pretty much done away with real people on checkouts. There aren't any security guards, but the tills always malfunction at least once. It's pretty simple, I want to buy stuff, happy to pay for it, not happy to wait ages for someone to have to come and reset the faulty machine repeatedly so they can save cash and abolish jobs.
V8forweekends said:
There aren't any security guards, but the tills always malfunction at least once. It's pretty simple, I want to buy stuff, happy to pay for it, not happy to wait ages for someone to have to come and reset the faulty machine repeatedly so they can save cash and abolish jobs.
They are utter garbage. I like the idea that I can do it myself, quickly, but the equipment is terrible. "Oh you've put chewing gum through? I can't weigh that so you need to wait for someone who is busy fixing another one".
I don't know why they don't have screen mirroring on each selfservice till and a camera pointing down to the bagging area, that way they could covertly observe rather than having a guard in your face.
At least every other time I use self service I get an "unexpected item in bagging area" announcement. I prefer to use the kiosk for human interaction but since I've stopped smoking others in the queue get irate, sometimes I feel pressured into buying some skins just so I have a reason to be in the queue.
At least every other time I use self service I get an "unexpected item in bagging area" announcement. I prefer to use the kiosk for human interaction but since I've stopped smoking others in the queue get irate, sometimes I feel pressured into buying some skins just so I have a reason to be in the queue.
Those machines are absolute s
t. Their sole purpose is to cut costs, at the expense of the customer, who has to tolerate "UNEXPECTED ITEM IN THE ING BAGGING AREA" and random things not scanning, then have to wait for some sour faced old harridan to begrudingly shuffle over and manually override them.
The cause me almost inconceivable levels of fury which is why I don't use them.
The self scan wand things that Waitrose do work much much better, I can pack my own bag as I walk around, scan it, use touchless payment and be out in seconds from finishing my shopping.
t. Their sole purpose is to cut costs, at the expense of the customer, who has to tolerate "UNEXPECTED ITEM IN THE ING BAGGING AREA" and random things not scanning, then have to wait for some sour faced old harridan to begrudingly shuffle over and manually override them.The cause me almost inconceivable levels of fury which is why I don't use them.
The self scan wand things that Waitrose do work much much better, I can pack my own bag as I walk around, scan it, use touchless payment and be out in seconds from finishing my shopping.
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