The Law, do you have to stop
Discussion
Pepperami said:
Depends on the car aswell. If it's a 52 plate Corsa with just some grille lights then I would be tempted to flash my hazards to show I understood the intention and then get on the phone. Although my force has some VERY surprising unmarked cars (personally the 3 dr Polo GTI is my favourite to drive) they are all very weak blued up, generally with grille lights, headlight flash, a good 3 ten siren and led blues in places like wing mirror side repeaters and headlights/highlight housings. It's all about perception.
There were 3 'surprising' cars shooting up the m6 near Stoke this morning with blues behind grills mirrors et. and the centre dash mount one. One car was an unmarked pickup/hilux type thing. Surprised just about everyone judging by the swerving to get out the way.Derek Smith said:
You have to comply with the signals of a police officer for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic and this includes stopping a vehicle. The legislation does not state anything to do with uniform.
So how does a member of the public know that they are being given signals by a police officer?I once asked an army driver what they do if they are pulled. A land rover with perhaps a couple of rifles in it, maybe some military comms gear. Potentially useful to someone.
He said if asked to stop they would call the local civvy police to confirm and then go to the nearest police station.
Not sure if that was procedure or just what he would do.
He said if asked to stop they would call the local civvy police to confirm and then go to the nearest police station.
Not sure if that was procedure or just what he would do.
No way would I stop for a plain clothes 'officer' without being in a public place, and my wife now knows better also. Last year she was just back into our car alone, late at night, on a deserted street. A man in plain clothes got out of a large blue saloon, approached her and showed a 'warrant card' with his photo on it.
He tried to get her to exit the vehicle, and when she refused through a barely cracked window and asked him for details he kept saying he was a police officer and had to do as she was told. He tried to get into the car and when she challenged him and made a lot of noise he ran (and then drove) away.
A quick call to the local duty sergeant on 101 later, and a discussion with HQ (we live in Liverpool) and it was confirmed that no such cars of that marque, or men fitting that description, were on duty or in use by the force. Nor, as it transpired, did warrant cards have the wording and layout that this guy's card did.
It was logged as an impersonator and details circulated but he was never caught. Advice from the sergeant was to never stop or open windows/doors for a plain clothes 'officer' and to dial 999, as only uniform should be pulling you anyway. The sergeant said rapes and robberies sometimes carry this MO and they are still looking out for him to this day (in theory).
You guys on the job may find it routine and say it's 'obvious' what a police car or officer looks like. But it doesn't take much eBaying these days to add a few antennas and a flashing light to a stolen car and go cruising around in a white shirt. I dread to think what could have happened should my wife have complied...
He tried to get her to exit the vehicle, and when she refused through a barely cracked window and asked him for details he kept saying he was a police officer and had to do as she was told. He tried to get into the car and when she challenged him and made a lot of noise he ran (and then drove) away.
A quick call to the local duty sergeant on 101 later, and a discussion with HQ (we live in Liverpool) and it was confirmed that no such cars of that marque, or men fitting that description, were on duty or in use by the force. Nor, as it transpired, did warrant cards have the wording and layout that this guy's card did.
It was logged as an impersonator and details circulated but he was never caught. Advice from the sergeant was to never stop or open windows/doors for a plain clothes 'officer' and to dial 999, as only uniform should be pulling you anyway. The sergeant said rapes and robberies sometimes carry this MO and they are still looking out for him to this day (in theory).
You guys on the job may find it routine and say it's 'obvious' what a police car or officer looks like. But it doesn't take much eBaying these days to add a few antennas and a flashing light to a stolen car and go cruising around in a white shirt. I dread to think what could have happened should my wife have complied...
photosnob said:
Making calls and then driving to where you want to stop sounds like a great way to provoke being taken to a police station for a drugs search. If you really want to wind them up why not wind down the windows and start throwing stuff out of the window at the same time.
Sorry but are people really so thick that they can't work out what a police car looks like. The none obvious ones are ridiculously unlikely to pull you over... They would just radio for a marked unit. Also why would criminals or impersonators want to pull you over... Unless you are famous and have bodyguards there are far easier ways to rob or hurt you.
Hmmm I think you have the wrong end of the stick...no-one is advocating ringing up your mum or mates whilst hurling bags of sugar out of the window as a decoy...Sorry but are people really so thick that they can't work out what a police car looks like. The none obvious ones are ridiculously unlikely to pull you over... They would just radio for a marked unit. Also why would criminals or impersonators want to pull you over... Unless you are famous and have bodyguards there are far easier ways to rob or hurt you.
Two things:
A) This isn't Bagdhad, NY or some other police state.
B) Impersonators do exist and they do try to coerce people from their vehicles for a variety of unpleasant doings.
Unless you are acting like a complete dick or shouting "F*** you copper" out of the window it is highly likely that reasonable behaviour promptly signalled to the actual police that you intend to comply with genuine requests from the nice gents in civvies once identification is established but and in a safe manner would not attract the full wrath of the law from a genuine policeman/lady.
In other words (for the slightly hard of understanding, and having lived in Miami) I would rather have to explain my (or my wife's) reasonable actions to a real copper/judge than get mugged/raped/knifed/shot by some unhinged loony who wanted to either leg it with my personal belongings or to provide full rimming services.
Edited by Pablo68 on Friday 26th September 08:54
Mk3Spitfire said:
Flashing blue lights, sirens, flash of headlights, pointing to side of road and mouthing "pull over". That's what I normally use a variation of anyway.
And in the earlier example given with no sirens or blue lights? You've then got a car of blokes flashing their lights and mouthing for you to pull over....Little Lofty said:
You are quite within your rights to drive to a public place or police station after being signalled to stop by a unmarked car, you do not have to stop immediately.
ACPO guidelines - Regardless of the stopping technique, drivers of unmarked cars must be aware of the need to identify their vehicle as a Police car to other drivers. Misinterpretation of signals from an unmarked vehicle can cause unnecessary pursuits or distress to drivers. Vehicles should be fitted with covert lighting , and preferably matrix signs that can be used to make the vehicle instantly recognisable.Officers in an unmarked vehicle should be aware that he driver of the vehicle being stopped could reasonably expect proof of identity to be produced or to request to attend a Police station in the case of a high value load.
Thats the official line.
Blues and twos displayed you should reasonably expect to stop.
Didnt the chap in the Kent Securitas raid get stopped by a car with lights and men in police clothing?
If I remember correctly something similar happened in the Northern bank raid in Belfast and just about a week ago a woman in London was robbed by fake policemen.
There are several cases of people being robbed by fake police and even sometimes by real police as was in the news about Gatwick this week.
No judge will convict (if it ever gets to court) an upstanding citizen for failing to stop if they attempt to or drive to a public place/police station if they do not trust that they are being stopped by real police.
If I remember correctly something similar happened in the Northern bank raid in Belfast and just about a week ago a woman in London was robbed by fake policemen.
There are several cases of people being robbed by fake police and even sometimes by real police as was in the news about Gatwick this week.
No judge will convict (if it ever gets to court) an upstanding citizen for failing to stop if they attempt to or drive to a public place/police station if they do not trust that they are being stopped by real police.
RichB said:
wildcat45 said:
...they would call the local civvy police...
That's easier said than done. In my area Berkshire/Thames Valley you get put through to Banbury and they've no idea where you are. More likely Windsor, Kidlington, Milton Keynes or Abingdon.
wiliferus said:
Unlikely to be put through to Banbury.
Sorry you're correct, Kidlington... Last time I called when some 3.141-keys were breaking into a field on the Bray Rd and she said where's the Bray Road. It's the road from Maidnehead to Bray I explained and she didn't have a clue!
RichB said:
wiliferus said:
Unlikely to be put through to Banbury.
Sorry you're correct, Kidlington... Last time I called when some 3.141-keys were breaking into a field on the Bray Rd and she said where's the Bray Road. It's the road from Maidnehead to Bray I explained and she didn't have a clue!
It'll potentially get worse if they amalgamate the emergency service control rooms as they will centralise it further to, for example, a 'South' mega control centre based in Hants. It will save money at the cost of the public service it provides.
There have been cases over the years of people falsely impersonating police and stopping lone women drivers.
Last year I saw a 10+ year old, 3 door, Golf GTI on the M40 a few times, being driven by a single occupant, in in civvy clothing, and at mad speeds and with a blue light either behind the grill or the dash (can't remember which). I wouldn't stop for that.
Last year I saw a 10+ year old, 3 door, Golf GTI on the M40 a few times, being driven by a single occupant, in in civvy clothing, and at mad speeds and with a blue light either behind the grill or the dash (can't remember which). I wouldn't stop for that.
photosnob said:
Sorry but are people really so thick that they can't work out what a police car looks like. The none obvious ones are ridiculously unlikely to pull you over... They would just radio for a marked unit. Also why would criminals or impersonators want to pull you over... Unless you are famous and have bodyguards there are far easier ways to rob or hurt you.
The amount of pretenders out there, for whatever reason they do it, Walting or otherwise, it's not unheard of for a fake police officer to pull people over, or try to. Given the number of car jackings that go on (2 have happened within half a mile of where I'm sat now in the last year and a half) I think it's perfectly reasonable to be wary and a good police officer will understand this.I'm not sure whether they'd let you off on using a handheld phone (as this is allowed in emergencies and dialling 999 certainly suggests you consider it an emergency!).
Oh and I once had an attempted burglary with "Police, open up".
So yea, I'd drive to a petrol station.
Edited by scarble on Monday 29th September 08:54
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