Private Car Sale

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Discussion

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Friday 26th September 2014
quotequote all
rallycross said:
Also ignore the idiots on here who will try and complicate things by talking about mis-representation in a private advert, this will not affect things, private sale, buyer beware etc.
I presume you mean me. You need to check your legal facts before calling others idiots. You cannot write any old fanciful rubbish in an advert for a private sale, it has to be correct to the best of your knowledge or there CAN be comeback - this has been covered many times on here by those who are properly qualified in these matters.

rallycross

12,744 posts

236 months

Friday 26th September 2014
quotequote all
GreigM said:
rallycross said:
Also ignore the idiots on here who will try and complicate things by talking about mis-representation in a private advert, this will not affect things, private sale, buyer beware etc.
I presume you mean me. You need to check your legal facts before calling others idiots. You cannot write any old fanciful rubbish in an advert for a private sale, it has to be correct to the best of your knowledge or there CAN be comeback - this has been covered many times on here by those who are properly qualified in these matters.
It comes up a lot, usually from the clueless legal types who quote things that will never be put into practice. Take a normal private sale, with typical vague advert text (eg very nice condition) and this course of action is not even going to be worth considering ( in the real world of selling used cars not in some imaginary legal world does not exist).

EskimoArapaho

5,135 posts

134 months

Friday 26th September 2014
quotequote all
rallycross said:
It comes up a lot, usually from the clueless legal types who quote things that will never be put into practice. Take a normal private sale, with typical vague advert text (eg very nice condition) and this course of action is not even going to be worth considering ( in the real world of selling used cars not in some imaginary legal world does not exist).
Did you see the OP's advert? Do you know what he said to them during the sale?

Or are you talking out of an orifice not normally associated with speech?

Wacky Racer

38,099 posts

246 months

Friday 26th September 2014
quotequote all
As long as you haven't grossly misrepresented it, for example:-

Two owners.....when it had five

No accident damage.....when it was a cat D

New engine....When it was the original......(You get the drift......

You have nothing to worry about......if they wanted a warranty they should have paid a somewhat more from a dealer......

I appreciate it can be a bit worrying, but hold your ground.....smile

philario

Original Poster:

42 posts

114 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
I appreciate all of your advice so thanks very much.
Looks like I'm just best to ignore her.

BUT, what happens if she does try to go through small claims, by saying the car was unroadworthy etc etc???
It's just niggling away at me.

Thank you all very much

rigga

8,727 posts

200 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Have you not read anybody the above? I presume you sold it with a valid mot? Then it was roadworthy you have nothing to worry about.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
BUT, what happens if she does try to go through small claims, by saying the car was unroadworthy etc etc???
Just go to court and say what you said in your opening post; then let the court decide. Post the ad's wording on here if you like.

She is unlikely to go to court since it involves an initial payment by her with generally a small chance of success.

Snollygoster

1,538 posts

138 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
I appreciate all of your advice so thanks very much.
Looks like I'm just best to ignore her.

BUT, what happens if she does try to go through small claims, by saying the car was unroadworthy etc etc???
It's just niggling away at me.

Thank you all very much
I agree with everyone else; nothing to worry about.

In the event she took you to small claims court which is highly unlikely (although I do sympathise it would be stressful, annoying and a waste of your time), from what you have told us you have nothing to worry about.

Let's say hypothetically the car has ended up going tits up, at point of sale you didn't know this, ergo not your fault.

You stated they drove it and were happy so that's end of. The only thing I might do is keep hold of any petrol receipts for the car to prove you were driving it until sold so nothing wrong with it.


On another note, love the idea of getting a free SIM for selling a car and binning it once sold. Will be doing that next.

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
If they wanted a warranty or come back they should have bought from a dealer. Private sale means they accept it as sold.

exceed

454 posts

175 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Keep as much evidence as you can (such as a screenshot and a PDF of the posted advert).

And as everyone else has said ignore everything.

She'd be stupid to take it to court as you could counter sue for grievance, wasting courts time, etc.

EskimoArapaho

5,135 posts

134 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
BUT, what happens if she does try to go through small claims, by saying the car was unroadworthy etc etc???
If she does do that, it will cost her a bit to start the ball rolling (via MoneyClaim Online). Not much at first.

Then you'll receive a paperwork from the court. It may seem scary, but it's just routine. She could be claiming that the car was full of dodo droppings and the court would still send out the paperwork. There's a form to fill in to file a defence (as discussed above). It's got a time limit on it, so do not ignore/defer that.

Then the court writes to her to tell her that you've filed a defence. She now has to decide whether to pay more fees to proceed. If she does, then the case will get assigned to a court and you get another batch of paperwork, including the chance to ask for it to be your local court (if it's not already). Bear in mind that - so far - no-one in the justice system has looked to see if the buyer's case has any merit - it's just a paper-shuffling exercise.

You will also both be asked if you are willing to try to mediate. You don't have to agree, and that will not prejudice your case. If you both agree, a date for the mediator will be set and s/he will speak to you both by phone (in turn not in a conference call) with the sole purpose of seeing if there's a middle-ground financial figure and/or agreed action that would be acceptable to both parties to settle the issue. The mediator does NOT decide the rights/wrongs, but will have the complaint and defence paperwork. (1)

If the mediator cannot find the compromise (or if you don't want mediation), a date gets set at court (which I also think costs the buyer yet more in fees). And only then will a legal professional look at the evidence/merits of the buyer's complaint and your defence.

If you are really worried, prepare a little now. Print out EVERYTHING with dates added. Write out as much of the conversation - date of test drive, what was said, how long, etc - as you can remember. Create a paper file in strict chronological order. The better prepared you are with the facts, the better your chances will be, other things being equal. (2)

IMHO, at no point mention anything about roadworthiness. You are not an expert - all you know was to get the car MOTed when it was due, and that's what it was sold with.

Don't fret. Good luck. smile

(1) In my case, the mediator tried to exert pressure to settle very close to the other party's position, talking about the greater risks I was running: "Well, the other party has spoken to their company's solicitor, and he is absolutely certain of getting a full settlement with costs if it goes to court. It could get much worse for you than the settlement they're offering now."


(2) In my case, I had emails/dates that the other side had lost/forgotten, and when I gave the details and quotes to the mediator (and her to them), they softened and we met more or less in the middle, and with an agreed rectification action required on their part.

philario

Original Poster:

42 posts

114 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
rigga said:
Have you not read anybody the above? I presume you sold it with a valid mot? Then it was roadworthy you have nothing to worry about.
Yes I have read everyones comments, but I've also read up on this kind of situation, and an MOT does not actually mean the car is roadworthy, because it was obviously roadworthy at time of mot but a few months down the line it might not be!

I feel better though and like you've all said she's just clutching at straws

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
BUT, what happens if she does try to go through small claims, by saying the car was unroadworthy etc etc???
It's just niggling away at me.
This is what she's hoping for, that you'll cave in and give her money back for the sake of an easy life - this is how these scams work (and it is a scam, have no doubts about that).

philario

Original Poster:

42 posts

114 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
EskimoArapaho said:
If she does do that, it will cost her a bit to start the ball rolling (via MoneyClaim Online). Not much at first.

Then you'll receive a paperwork from the court. It may seem scary, but it's just routine. She could be claiming that the car was full of dodo droppings and the court would still send out the paperwork. There's a form to fill in to file a defence (as discussed above). It's got a time limit on it, so do not ignore/defer that.

Then the court writes to her to tell her that you've filed a defence. She now has to decide whether to pay more fees to proceed. If she does, then the case will get assigned to a court and you get another batch of paperwork, including the chance to ask for it to be your local court (if it's not already). Bear in mind that - so far - no-one in the justice system has looked to see if the buyer's case has any merit - it's just a paper-shuffling exercise.

You will also both be asked if you are willing to try to mediate. You don't have to agree, and that will not prejudice your case. If you both agree, a date for the mediator will be set and s/he will speak to you both by phone (in turn not in a conference call) with the sole purpose of seeing if there's a middle-ground financial figure and/or agreed action that would be acceptable to both parties to settle the issue. The mediator does NOT decide the rights/wrongs, but will have the complaint and defence paperwork. (1)

If the mediator cannot find the compromise (or if you don't want mediation), a date gets set at court (which I also think costs the buyer yet more in fees). And only then will a legal professional look at the evidence/merits of the buyer's complaint and your defence.

If you are really worried, prepare a little now. Print out EVERYTHING with dates added. Write out as much of the conversation - date of test drive, what was said, how long, etc - as you can remember. Create a paper file in strict chronological order. The better prepared you are with the facts, the better your chances will be, other things being equal. (2)

IMHO, at no point mention anything about roadworthiness. You are not an expert - all you know was to get the car MOTed when it was due, and that's what it was sold with.

Don't fret. Good luck. smile

(1) In my case, the mediator tried to exert pressure to settle very close to the other party's position, talking about the greater risks I was running: "Well, the other party has spoken to their company's solicitor, and he is absolutely certain of getting a full settlement with costs if it goes to court. It could get much worse for you than the settlement they're offering now."


(2) In my case, I had emails/dates that the other side had lost/forgotten, and when I gave the details and quotes to the mediator (and her to them), they softened and we met more or less in the middle, and with an agreed rectification action required on their part.
Thanks for that, just out of interest what was your case? You don't have to tell us tho

Ari

19,328 posts

214 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
Thanks guys for your quick replies.
I spoke to a solicitor this morning and he said respond but keep it short just saying it was roadworthy at the point of sale.
Should I not bother then?
Are you really asking whether you should ignore proper legal advice in favour of some bloke on the Internet!? biggrin

To be fair, I think most of the advice here is pretty good, but never ever take Internet advice from strangers over proper legal advice.

EskimoArapaho

5,135 posts

134 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
Thanks for that, just out of interest what was your case? You don't have to tell us tho
A contract dispute with a tradesman; total value about £4500. We were the defendants. My OH is not English and was - like you - more than a little worried. Especially by the Court's paperwork. We got what we wanted - a court-registered undertaking for the contractor to finish the work with an agreed payment schedule. He had to cover his own costs.

Nothing like the facts/content of your case, but the process would be the same.

rigga

8,727 posts

200 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
philario said:
rigga said:
Have you not read anybody the above? I presume you sold it with a valid mot? Then it was roadworthy you have nothing to worry about.
Yes I have read everyones comments, but I've also read up on this kind of situation, and an MOT does not actually mean the car is roadworthy, because it was obviously roadworthy at time of mot but a few months down the line it might not be!

I feel better though and like you've all said she's just clutching at straws
Actually the mot only shows the state of the car at the time of test itself, an hour or so later it could be a pile of junk, but point being as a private seller you sold a legally roadworthy vehicle, its up to the buyer to prove otherwise at point of sale, as they inspected it and then paid and drove away, your part is done, move on nothing to see here.

philario

Original Poster:

42 posts

114 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Update on this topic:

I've received paperwork from the courts, which I know I need to respond to.
Is it worth getting a solicitor yet or do I wait and see what happens?
I feel like I am getting scammed, but they seemed like such a genuine couple!!!!

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
It certainly wouldn't harm your case if you did but I think they're just trying it on. Complete the paperwork and consult someone like Citizens Advice before sending it back. I fail to see how they have a leg to stand on.

Slurms

1,252 posts

203 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
There is another thread currently running on here which is exactly the same scenario. This seems to be getting really common.