Have been accused of theft?
Discussion
jesta1865 said:
La Liga said:
Mistakes happen, naturally. There's 130k+ officers, most of whom are constantly dealing with incidents and investigations.
What's a big red flag is those who constantly seem to have issues or who have a wide group of friends who conveniently all have a negative experiences to summon upon.
yes mistakes do happen, which is why i always laugh at people who say if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.What's a big red flag is those who constantly seem to have issues or who have a wide group of friends who conveniently all have a negative experiences to summon upon.
over the years i've not had to interact with the BiB very much and personally it depends on who you get as to how you perceive the experience. i've had 2 coppers in my hall, who couldn't have been more chalk and cheese, the pc was great, explained stuff and was very pleasant, the sergeant was a mardy b
d.me i'd go of my own volition, but i'd have the legal representation, i'd also budget for a long stay.
caziques said:
Perhaps NZ Police are even more terminally stupid than their UK counterparts - my experience is possibly similar to dingg.
Going "no comment" resulted in the Police showing how tough they were with a search warrant - looking for a wheel clamp that I was both intelligent enough to remove - and stupid enough to leave in my bedside cabinet. When they didn't find it (there's a surprise) I was rewarded with a summons. (We didn't find any evidence so we'll issue a summons in any case!).
After wasting considerable amounts of time the Police even ballsed up the withdrawal from court, by not letting my legally aided solicitor know.
The whole fiasco must have cost a few thousand, a situation that could have been a lot worse if I had talked to the Police. Eventually it transpired I had been seen fixing the brakes on the car in question the day BEFORE a clamp was attached - the Police had jumped to a wrong conclusion and put words into a witnesses mouth.
I suspect the real reason for trying to get me was a case I had against the Police in the High Court a couple of years before, the judge gave the Police a right bking for having paperwork wrong - and as a result they had to change the wording and reprint thousands of documents. C'est la vie.
I was under the impression that the police need evidence to gain a search warrant, if they have that then whether you go the "no comment" route or not wont matter , either they have the evidence or they don't , if the police really infer guilt based on a "no comment" reply then more fool them. Going "no comment" resulted in the Police showing how tough they were with a search warrant - looking for a wheel clamp that I was both intelligent enough to remove - and stupid enough to leave in my bedside cabinet. When they didn't find it (there's a surprise) I was rewarded with a summons. (We didn't find any evidence so we'll issue a summons in any case!).
After wasting considerable amounts of time the Police even ballsed up the withdrawal from court, by not letting my legally aided solicitor know.
The whole fiasco must have cost a few thousand, a situation that could have been a lot worse if I had talked to the Police. Eventually it transpired I had been seen fixing the brakes on the car in question the day BEFORE a clamp was attached - the Police had jumped to a wrong conclusion and put words into a witnesses mouth.
I suspect the real reason for trying to get me was a case I had against the Police in the High Court a couple of years before, the judge gave the Police a right b
king for having paperwork wrong - and as a result they had to change the wording and reprint thousands of documents. C'est la vie.Same goes for whether you get charged or not , either they feel they have a case or they dont. I really dont believe the Police would really arrest and then charge someone because they feel that by saying "no comment" they are therefore dodgy.
Perhaps I am giving them too much credit?
Going no comment does not necessarily mean you will be presumed guilty. It's your right not to say anything. However, the blanket advice that some "professionals" on here give to go no comment with any interview is not good advice. That's why you should have a brief if you're unsure.
Although IMO some duty briefs advice, is patchy at best.
Although IMO some duty briefs advice, is patchy at best.
Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Tuesday 30th September 11:20
Bigends said:
Depending on how the interview goes you could be there for a couple of hours or so and released or arrested and in for the day and your house searched
This is another area where mistakes are happening. No one should be arrested after voluntrarily attending just so a S18 search can be conducted. If you have told someone to attend a police station on suspicion of theft, surely if they have stolen the item(s) they would be smart enough to make sure the items have been disposed before attending the station. If a policeman reasonsbly believes someone has the stolen items at their place of residence, the lawful procedure will be to obtain a section 8 warrant from the magistrate court and surprise the suspect.The only time I can think it would br lawful to arrest a voluntary attendee to conduct an S18 search will be where a suspect admits to the theft or other relevant information comes to light during the interview.
OP - I noticed your other thread, and the facts are significant.
One of three things has happened:
1) The necklace hasn't gone missing - they are just getting you back and leveraging a £900 refund to 'make it go away'.
2) The necklace has gone missing - it's in their house they just can't find it are putting 2 and 2 together.
3) The necklace has gone missing - they are having problems, maybe the reason they want CCTV!?
Either way, 'going no comment' is not going to help you. You have nothing to hide. Get the advice of a solicitor.
IMHO the background to the accusation is significant. This all happens after you refuse to immediately return to a job to change something, and they threaten you with a chargeback. Which they will no doubt have been told otherwise by their bank.
I think it was highly unreasonable for them not to accept you rectifying anything they thought was wrong within the week as you promised. If they are that unreasonable, it may not be past them to do 1) above.
Either way, if they find it, they will certainly not be big enough to admit it.
One of three things has happened:
1) The necklace hasn't gone missing - they are just getting you back and leveraging a £900 refund to 'make it go away'.
2) The necklace has gone missing - it's in their house they just can't find it are putting 2 and 2 together.
3) The necklace has gone missing - they are having problems, maybe the reason they want CCTV!?
Either way, 'going no comment' is not going to help you. You have nothing to hide. Get the advice of a solicitor.
IMHO the background to the accusation is significant. This all happens after you refuse to immediately return to a job to change something, and they threaten you with a chargeback. Which they will no doubt have been told otherwise by their bank.
I think it was highly unreasonable for them not to accept you rectifying anything they thought was wrong within the week as you promised. If they are that unreasonable, it may not be past them to do 1) above.
Either way, if they find it, they will certainly not be big enough to admit it.
caziques said:
Going "no comment" resulted in the Police showing how tough they were with a search warrant - looking for a wheel clamp that I was both intelligent enough to remove - and stupid enough to leave in my bedside cabinet.
O/T but I would love to know more...1. What kind of a crime is perpetrated by a wheel clamp? (I suppose unlawful clamping - but it hardly sounds criminal - even in NZ.)
2. How big are your bedside cabinets?
3. What else do you have in there - a flock of sheep?
4. Who hides something in their bedside cabinet? Seriously, that's like keeping a collection of dismembered ears in your safe.
There'll never be any agreement about whether the Police will try to fit you up/get you to incriminate yourself/dispassionately attempt to ascertain the facts, so any arguments about that are pointless and just result in mudslinging
All would say is that you would be a complete fool to agree to any kind of chat without your solicitor present.
All would say is that you would be a complete fool to agree to any kind of chat without your solicitor present.
.
NOT MY AREA - NO ADVICE GIVEN OR INTENDED.
1. I would obviously speak to a colleague who did this sort of thing but my initial thoughts, if this were me, would be to go the pain in the backside voluntary route. I would rather not have to think too hard before applying for things if i had 'allowed' myself to be arrested when there is a chance that a simple interview under caution would clear things up and put it in the NFA file.
2. In considering point 1 I would also be going on the basis that I'm quite comfortable talking to Police Officers, especially when I know that there is no case to answer, and that I am used to spotting leading questions at 30 paces and dealing with appropriately.
3. In any event I would not be talking to them without a properly experienced solicitor next to me, regardless of how our conversation came about.
4. IME some Police Officers look to investigate an alleged offence, some try to build a case. The difference is that one is going in with an open mind and seeing if there is anything in the accusations, the other already wants to believe you did it and feels that they just need to prove it. This is not a dig but simple human nature.
5. Some (most I have met) Police Officers are normal everyday people who were bullied at school no more than anyone else, have many better things to do but not right now and just want to do a job that they signed up for, usually with the intention of serving a social purpose as well as funding their mortgage and beer tokens. Some (very few that I have encountered) are not suited to the office that they hold.
1. I would obviously speak to a colleague who did this sort of thing but my initial thoughts, if this were me, would be to go the pain in the backside voluntary route. I would rather not have to think too hard before applying for things if i had 'allowed' myself to be arrested when there is a chance that a simple interview under caution would clear things up and put it in the NFA file.
2. In considering point 1 I would also be going on the basis that I'm quite comfortable talking to Police Officers, especially when I know that there is no case to answer, and that I am used to spotting leading questions at 30 paces and dealing with appropriately.
3. In any event I would not be talking to them without a properly experienced solicitor next to me, regardless of how our conversation came about.
4. IME some Police Officers look to investigate an alleged offence, some try to build a case. The difference is that one is going in with an open mind and seeing if there is anything in the accusations, the other already wants to believe you did it and feels that they just need to prove it. This is not a dig but simple human nature.
5. Some (most I have met) Police Officers are normal everyday people who were bullied at school no more than anyone else, have many better things to do but not right now and just want to do a job that they signed up for, usually with the intention of serving a social purpose as well as funding their mortgage and beer tokens. Some (very few that I have encountered) are not suited to the office that they hold.
Eclassy said:
TIf a policeman reasonsbly believes someone has the stolen items at their place of residence, the lawful procedure will be to obtain a section 8 warrant from the magistrate court and surprise the suspect.
Lots of accusations won't amount to threshold for granting of a warrant but still reach the threshold for PACE search powers. It's not as simple as you present it. R1 Indy said:
or he would have to ask Gloucestershire police to arrest me, and bring me to them for an interview.
Isn't there a greater requirement for arrest than someone claiming there's circumstantial evidence? I thought there would be slightly more stringent criteria than simply a lady saying something can't be found.
Look at it from the courts poitn of view -if it got that far.
You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
Mojooo said:
Look at it from the courts poitn of view -if it got that far.
You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
Exactly this OP.You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
A solicitor may advise to answer 'no comment' but probably when you are guilty of something and the only way the charge will stick is if you admit something.
In the real world of what this is, the police officer is duty bound to investigate this. If you openly explain what has gone on, and especially as this seems to be related to them trying to not pay you for work then the police officer can make up his own mind.
If you roll in all ballsy making them arrest you and transport you before saying 'no comment' then this inference alone will likely make them treat this matter with a lot more credence than it deserves.
Mojooo said:
Look at it from the courts poitn of view -if it got that far.
You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
Do you accept that there are circumstances where it is most definitely advisable to refuse to comment, regardless of how 'dodgy' it may make you look in the eyes of a Police Officer or anyone else?You turn up at interview and refuse to say anything - as such the Police decide there is enough to charge you.
Whilst you have the right to silence and can fofer a defence at court don't forget that there can be ana dverse inference that you did not answer questions in the Police itnerview because you didn;t have answers that could stand up to to questionning.
If you provide answers in an interview you coudl create enough doubt in the Police officers mind to close it off.
If you really are innocent a no comment will amost certainly make you look dodgy to a Police officer who probably gets thousands of dodgy peopel saying the same thign every day. A Polcie office rwill be awrae there may be genuien reasons why you want to go no comment but ultimatley they have to decide whether to pursue or bin and if they have a seemingly respectable person saying something was nicked and you refusing to asnwer questions.
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