Bye laws + Private Roads

Author
Discussion

Fozziebear

1,840 posts

139 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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I cycle/run along a private road that is also a public footpath and bridleway, they have signs saying no access to cement works etc. check an OS map of the area, have a ride through and see what happens, the worse they can do is tell you to bugger off

TooLateForAName

4,727 posts

183 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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IANAL (but when did that stop anyone? wink )

I think that the bye-laws are enacted by an act of parliament and I also think that they fall into the criminal rather than civil.

But that wording doesn't rule out lawful use of any right of way.

I'd probably give them a ring and check the access/right of way situation with them.

aw51 121565

4,771 posts

232 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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It might be worth initially speaking to the local authority's "rights of way" officer, for a better answer than most of us on here can give wink .

Bye Law 73 might be one of the LA's Bye Laws, or it might be one of the Manchester Ship Canal Company's own Bye Laws - the MSCC (aka Peel Holdings nowadays? could be wrong smile ) are a sizeable organisation in this part of the country...


Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

243 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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This is much like British Rail property - offence to park and other minor infringements which are covered by Bye Law brought about by an Act of Parliament which gives permission for Bye Law to be created or an application to Sec of State to authorise Bye Law as law and creating summary offences.)
dvd

rs1952

5,247 posts

258 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Purity14 said:
Dwight VanDriver said:
This is much like British Rail property
Trespassing on British Rail will result in flashing blue lights and me being bundled into the back of a van - which I can appreciate.

I am wondering if it is the same with these characters or not.

The problem is, is that I cant find anything relating to this "General Bye Law 73" should I want to read it.

I think ill ring them today and ask, "Can I cycle on your road m8?".
Ringing them will probably be the quickest way to do it smile

Having a quick look at Streetview OS maps which show rights of way (although you shouldn't totally rely on the information there and, as somebody has already said, you should ask the local Rights of Way Officer at the Council), some of the Manchester Shop Canal is shown as having a footpath running along it - but my no means all of it. If it were a "normal" canal that comes under the jurisdiction of the Canals & Rivers Trust then you are allowed to ride a bike along the towpath unless there are specific signs saying you can't (this changed in 2012, by the way, in case anybody jumps in and says "no you can't and you need a permit" because that is no longer the case). But the MSC wasn't built with canal barges and horses in mind, so it doesn't have a towpath in the accepted sense of the term.

I even tried to be "clever" to see where on the MSC you were talking about, but entering "Bankfields Drive" into Google Maps doesn't give me anything any closer to the MSC than Birkenhead. What bit of the MSC are we talking about?

rs1952

5,247 posts

258 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Purity14 said:
Here you go smile

This is a route from one side to the other. 0.2 miles

This is a route from one side to the other, without using that road, without using a motorway, on a pushbike. 5.4 miles (With a national speed limit road, a horrible winding decent, and a hard hill to pedal back up.)
Sorry for the delay - I've been out to a retired railway staff lunchtime meeting in Bristol smile

It is a plain and simple private road. There is formal no public right of way along it. But that doesn't necessarily mean to say that you can't ride your bike along it. Let me explain.

Where a route is designated as a public right of way (road, footpath, bridleway, whatever) then you have a legal right of passage of some sort along it. There are restrictions in some cases (eg. you are not legally allowed to ride your bike along a footpath) but a legal right of passage exists. Many of these public rights of way, and especially footpaths and bridleways, are not owned by the Council, they are privately owned, and in these cases there is an obligation upon the owner to keep the route open for your right of passage. And that is a s far as the law goes.

Now to take an example, you, as a landowner, with a footpath running over your private land, may decide that you don't mind if people ride their bikes along it. If you are happy for that to happen, then it is perfectly legal for you to allow it, but the cyclists who then ride along the footpath have no legal right to do so, they have your permission to do so. A subtle difference, but an important one.

Taking that principle to Bankfields Drive, the road is private and nobody has a legal right to use it at all. However, if the owner of the road doesn't mind if you use it, then you would be doing it with their permission, and not as a legal right. Looking at both ends of the road in question on Google Street View, I would be very surprised indeed if the locals weren't going up and down that road quite frequently on foot and perhaps on bikes, and even in motor vehicles. I feel that this is implicitly borne out by the sign at the western end of the road advising people that it is closed for 3 hours every day. This, in my mind, is the owner's way of saying "you have my permission to use this road but only when I say so, and not at all times." That notice also has the effect of stopping a public right of way being created by what is known as "established use."

I would say that the likelihood of you being carted off in chains for using that road is remote in the extreme, so if I lived in that neck of the woods I would be using it until somebody told me to stop.

One final point - trespass is usually a matter for the civil court and it would be for the person claiming that you trespassed to claim damages from you. The likelihood of your bike doing any damage to that road is minimal so there wouldn't be a cat in hell's chance of a case proceeding. However, there is an offence of criminal trespass, but this only applies to specific land (eg MOD bases, royal palaces, railway land) Whether land in the ownership of the Manchester Ship Canal comes into this category I know not, but I suspect the wording of that bye-law they mention would tell you. That said, if anybody had ever been prosecuted for using that road I am sure that (a) it would have been in the local papers and (b) the Manchester Ship Canal would have made it absolutely clear that you could be nicked for trespass if you used it by means of unambiguous signs at both ends.

Happy cycling smile


Swervin_Mervin

4,429 posts

237 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Knowing exactly which road you're on about here, I think you're worrying about something you really needn't worry about!

It's a public road, even though on private land. I've done work in the area and merrily sailed up and down it looking suspicious, including stopping and taking pictures, and had no bother.