Police and Oversteer

[AlexHillTVR]

I had a bit of a moment this morning on the way to work when I nearly got very out of shape off a roundabout in the pouring rain. My fault I confess, I wasn't overly concentrating and got on the throttle a bit too much.

Thing is, there was a police car behind me at the time. I thought "well I'm definitely going to get pulled over for that" so I just continued along at about 30 a bit aprehensively, just waiting. They followed me for about a mile and then turned off into a side road. I was really surprised.

What's the general police stance on this? I must admit I do it for fun rather often when it's wet out but this morning was just genuine 'not thinking'. Did they leave me alone because I obviously wasn't that stupid to do it infront of them on purpose??

[ging84]

I suspect you got their attention but they also noticed quite how slippery it was so they followed you for a bit to see if you did anything else and then left you alone

[Durzel]

If they thought you'd done it on purpose they probably would've had words, perhaps charged you with DWDCA? Really depends on how intentional it appeared to be (e.g. Scandanavian flick or accelerating into the roundabout looking to get the back out) and your subsequent driving, which in this case appears to have been enough to dissuade them from taking it any further.

[stargazer30]

The fuzz left you alone as at the exact time of applying opp lock to catch it you were shouting foooooooooookkk into your rear view mirror.

Had you been grinning like the Cheshire cat, with one hand on the wheel, it might have ended differently.

[Rude-boy]

As said it would appear that they exercise discretion. The reason why they did this was likely because they thought you had made a simple mistake and had corrected this with minimum of fuss and your general driving was within acceptable limits.

If they had thought you had done it on purpose you would have been talking to them at the road side.

I know I have, although a very long time ago and 3am in the morning

[AA999]

Always wondered myself where the line is drawn between not being in control of your vehicle and purposely taking a vehicle beyond its limits of grip on a public road.

Your typical ditch-finder south asian tyre brands don't always offer grips levels that will stick your car to the ground even when well within typical speed limits on the road...... ....so if one were to be in full control, within the driver's limits, yet beyond the grips limits of a tyre, and also well within the posted speed limit, is that an automatic view-point by the law that you are not in control (even though you may be - if you see what I mean)?


I guess its the same situation as spinning tyres under acceleration or locking up under braking.

[MGZTV8]

It might come as a surprise to many that the Police are not actually robots so there is no defined Police "stance".

Likely that the officer behind you made the judgement that it was a mistake.

Couldve been different if other officers were behind you maybe...

[AA999]

I came round a hairpin in the middle of town one winter time in one of these :


Speed limit was 30mph, I was doing about 15mph!
The back end stepped out and resulted in a smooth perfect 10/10 drift all the way around reaching about 50% steering lock.
Only to find a police car at a side junction 100m further along the road.

Both officers in the car had a smile on their face with both of them wagging their finger at me. I was fully expecting to be pulled over, hand-cuffed and thrown in the dungeon. But it didn't happen. They followed for a few hundred metres, as I guess they ran vehicle checks, and then turned off.

[Durzel]

AA999 said:

Always wondered myself where the line is drawn between not being in control of your vehicle and purposely taking a vehicle beyond its limits of grip on a public road.

Your typical ditch-finder south asian tyre brands don't always offer grips levels that will stick your car to the ground even when well within typical speed limits on the road...... ....so if one were to be in full control, within the driver's limits, yet beyond the grips limits of a tyre, and also well within the posted speed limit, is that an automatic view-point by the law that you are not in control (even though you may be - if you see what I mean)?


I guess its the same situation as spinning tyres under acceleration or locking up under braking.

All hypotheticals now but wouldn't you (moreover the Police) expect a driver who knows they're driving a car with ditchfinders to moderate their driving accordingly? I don't think you'd get very far arguing that you drove any car in a manner that disregarded its capabilities, or that doing so would be "in full control". "Not my fault guv'nor, I drive my sports car at 60 around this corner so I did exactly the same in this 'ere Transit and came off the road."

As has been alluded to above it's all going to come down to interpretations of the event. If you looked out of control, or that you had done it on purpose, chances are you'd get a bking or prosecuted. If it looked like a genuine mistake and/or you weren't "out of control" then probably not. That being said, people have been prosecuted for being out of control when popping wheelies and such - so ultimately it's probably not something you want to put to the test too often.

Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 1st October 13:57

[Kawasicki]

I've been pulled over by police and successfully used the "diesel spill" excuse.

[RB Will]

When I had my E30 I came onto a big roundabout with a grassy mound in the middle so couldnt see exit. Two lanes wide though and it was raining and quiet so proceeded round with about 1 turn of opp lock. as I got to the 11 o clock position I saw a police car was waiting to enter the roundabout. I quickly collected the slide and took the exit. Both coppers staring at me, I looked back and tried to look a bit surprised/ shocked lol. they just drove on and left me alone.
On the other hand I got a massive bking for accelerating hard with no wheelspin so I guess it just depends which copper is watching.

[Faust66]

Big wet roundabout, 2.8 Capri and youthful exuberance (just outside Donnington park in Leicestershire)… didn't realise there was a police car parked up with good view of the roundabout.

I got pulled over and was told to go a bit more slowly around roundabouts & corners and not to drive like a pratt on public roads. I made my apologies to the officer concerned and went about my business. To be fair to him, the BIB did state that he'd had a Capri in the past and knew what they were like when the roads were damp… and that 'practicing' catching a slide when other road users were nearby, whilst fun, was a bit stupid.

Flipside of the coin: I knew a bloke who got a bking and a ticket back in the late 1990's for wheelspinning in his Capri (mighty 1.6!) on wet roads… I'm guessing that he mouthed off at the cop (he was the type) whereas I was my usual polite self when dealing with the Police and that discretion was applied in my case.

Still drive past that roundabout with a wry grin on my face 12 odd years later - but I don't tend to provoke my current car into massive slides at the drop of a hat anymore.

[nitrodave]

a few years back, when it covered in snow i was driving round buckingham palace in a 200sx. No matter what i did the back end would step out but i neatly connected the right-left-right drfits without it getting too out of shape. Came to a stop at the set of lights and an unmarked cop car pulled up next to me.

They rolled the window down and complimented me on handling of the car in those conditions.

Good traffic officers can tell the difference between keeping control in bad condition and intentionally over steering with your foot planted on the throttle

[scubadude]

AA999 said:

I came round a hairpin in the middle of town one winter time in one of these :


Speed limit was 30mph, I was doing about 15mph!
The back end stepped out and resulted in a smooth perfect 10/10 drift all the way around reaching about 50% steering lock.

Agreed, unladen vans are also superb, my HiAce delivers the most beautiful slow speed and controllable drifts in the moist, if you push on and the road is suitable you can get it to graduate to full on 4-wheel drift. Wet, elevated A-road/motorway roundabout to slip road interface's are perfect, manage the weight transfer and lean on the hard tyres, follow the back end with the steering then move it back to ahead while mashing the throttle on the puny engine while never troubling the speed limit... such fun!

That said I got told off for drifting a MTB on a wet sideroad once, had just left a forest and had tires full of mud so threw a lurid skid on the cul-du-sac to clear some just as the rozzers turned into the road, opps.

[defblade]

See, I don't quite understand this one:

Slide without meaning to (ie, losing control of the car but being lucky/skilled/quick enough to gather it again after the event) = OK.

Slide on purpose (ie, remaining in control of the car all through the action) = DWDCA.


???

[W124Bob]

GMP ran 2.8 Capris and I remember having a convesation with a retired traffic cop, he would put a paving slab in the boot when running without all the usual kit, mind you he was of an age that could talk about a Humber Super Snipe estate which he drove during the time he did accident investigation and the Zodiac estate which replaced it. Niether was mentioned with much nostalger!

[toon10]

When I was a stupid teenager I did a low speed handbrake turn in the snow at a junction. I'd somehow completely missed the fact that there was a parked (and fully marked up) police car complete with two officers watching the whole thing. I'm not sure if they were laughing at my cheek or the look on my face as I noticed them but they didn't even start the car up. I was a lucky boy that day.

[AA999]

Durzel said:

All hypotheticals now but wouldn't you (moreover the Police) expect a driver who knows they're driving a car with ditchfinders to moderate their driving accordingly? I don't think you'd get very far arguing that you drove any car in a manner that disregarded its capabilities, or that doing so would be "in full control". "Not my fault guv'nor, I drive my sports car at 60 around this corner so I did exactly the same in this 'ere Transit and came off the road."

As has been alluded to above it's all going to come down to interpretations of the event. If you looked out of control, or that you had done it on purpose, chances are you'd get a bking or prosecuted. If it looked like a genuine mistake and/or you weren't "out of control" then probably not. That being said, people have been prosecuted for being out of control when popping wheelies and such - so ultimately it's probably not something you want to put to the test too often.

Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 1st October 13:57

I am glad that these things are still down to the discretion of an officer and not an automated offence via big-brother cameras.
But the question is mainly about how does the law view the loss of traction (or slippage) of any driven wheels?

Happy to be corrected but the main offence which these things would most likely come under is DWDCAA, with the interpretation being that there was a "loss of control".
But how would the law (officer) prove a "loss of control", when in some cases the driver may well possess the skill sets of Tommi Makkinen ?
Is it just the fact that a tyre had excessive slippage across the road surface? Is it that 'black&white'?

[Hilts]

I was pulled once by a following marked police car getting a little bit sideways turning out of a junction in the wet. It was dark, I didn't notice they were cops.

Nothing happened as after they radioed their base (I think) while I was sitting in the back seat I think someone told them to let me go. Long story.

[Robatr0n]

Years ago I was heading from Ealing to Greenford in my Mum's 316i Compact (complete with an Auto box and a LSD!). In order to get onto the Greenford Road you have to head up to Uxbridge Road and then complete a U-turn at a cut-out in the road provided.

This day, however, there were Police on the Uxbridge road as there had been an oil spillage and it had been raining for some time too so the road was quite a mess. Being a fairly new driver, I turned around at the designated turning spot and as I eased on the throttle I completely lost the back end. I was like a drunk octopus at the wheel with arms flying everywhere but somehow I managed to instinctively whack on full opposite lock to stop me spinning the car.

I eventually (and somehow) regained control of the car and slowly crept along in the inside lane whilst my heart was trying it's best to escape my chest. At the side of the road stood a Policeman with his mouth wide open just staring at me. I was absolutely convinced that I was going to get pulled over and receive the bking of a lifetime but I guess that given the circumstances they let it slide.