Sale of Goods Act on a 2 year old faulty laptop
Discussion
Hi,
Short version - colleague bought a laptop in tail end of December 2012, recently asked me to look at it because "the screen has stopped working". Turns out the backlight has completely died, but you can just barely make out the silouette of Windows running in the background. Would hazard a guess that the inverter or panel has failed.
Manufacturer hasn't been much help - confirmed that the laptop had a 1 year warranty and thus any repair would be chargeable. Spoke to retailer and they said likewise, though I've managed to progress the matter by virtue of bringing up the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the fact that a reasonable individual would not expect a laptop screen to completely stop working within 2 years of manufacture - i.e. it has failed the "satisfactory quality, fit for purpose" test, and retailer is thus in breach of contract. The laptop was just under £300 new, so not an amazing spec but good enough for its intended purpose.
Retailer has got back to me and said that the owner has to pay for an engineer's report to confirm the "fault is inherent to the laptop". They weren't specific about what qualifications this engineer would have to have, only that they "be qualified and approved in advance by them". They have offered to pay £25 towards the cost of this report and said that "Trading Standards have ok'd this amount".
IANAL but it seems like the SoGA makes provisions that a consumer should not be out of pocket for rectification. A Google search with articles from Which, etc seems to point to a liability of up to £200 for these reports? I managed to find a local company who can do this report to their specification, and will charge £35. I communicated this to the retailer but they won't budge on their "gratuity". I pointed out to them that the fact that they are unwilling to cover a "proportional engineer report cost" essentially means they are imposing a tariff on their legally obliged service.
I'm willing to be told I'm on a hiding to nothing with this, especially for the sake of £10, but even searching on Google there is more than one instance of this particular e-tailer attempting to shirk their responsibilities, with one in particular describing a not-dissimilar situation where they had to be formally taken to court before they settled.
I'm possibly also jumping the gun a bit at this point because until they've said what they're prepared to do (the laptop is patently faulty, anyone trained or otherwise who looks at it can tell that) - i.e. whether they will offer a repair, like-for-like replacement or proportional refund. Any of those options would be palatable to my colleague, I think.
I guess what I'm asking at this point is whether I'm fundamentally wrong on the whole "if something goes wrong you have to pay money to get put right" aspect of the SoGA with out-of-warranty products.
I await the crucifixion by the resident legal bods. My body is ready.
Short version - colleague bought a laptop in tail end of December 2012, recently asked me to look at it because "the screen has stopped working". Turns out the backlight has completely died, but you can just barely make out the silouette of Windows running in the background. Would hazard a guess that the inverter or panel has failed.
Manufacturer hasn't been much help - confirmed that the laptop had a 1 year warranty and thus any repair would be chargeable. Spoke to retailer and they said likewise, though I've managed to progress the matter by virtue of bringing up the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the fact that a reasonable individual would not expect a laptop screen to completely stop working within 2 years of manufacture - i.e. it has failed the "satisfactory quality, fit for purpose" test, and retailer is thus in breach of contract. The laptop was just under £300 new, so not an amazing spec but good enough for its intended purpose.
Retailer has got back to me and said that the owner has to pay for an engineer's report to confirm the "fault is inherent to the laptop". They weren't specific about what qualifications this engineer would have to have, only that they "be qualified and approved in advance by them". They have offered to pay £25 towards the cost of this report and said that "Trading Standards have ok'd this amount".
IANAL but it seems like the SoGA makes provisions that a consumer should not be out of pocket for rectification. A Google search with articles from Which, etc seems to point to a liability of up to £200 for these reports? I managed to find a local company who can do this report to their specification, and will charge £35. I communicated this to the retailer but they won't budge on their "gratuity". I pointed out to them that the fact that they are unwilling to cover a "proportional engineer report cost" essentially means they are imposing a tariff on their legally obliged service.
I'm willing to be told I'm on a hiding to nothing with this, especially for the sake of £10, but even searching on Google there is more than one instance of this particular e-tailer attempting to shirk their responsibilities, with one in particular describing a not-dissimilar situation where they had to be formally taken to court before they settled.
I'm possibly also jumping the gun a bit at this point because until they've said what they're prepared to do (the laptop is patently faulty, anyone trained or otherwise who looks at it can tell that) - i.e. whether they will offer a repair, like-for-like replacement or proportional refund. Any of those options would be palatable to my colleague, I think.
I guess what I'm asking at this point is whether I'm fundamentally wrong on the whole "if something goes wrong you have to pay money to get put right" aspect of the SoGA with out-of-warranty products.
I await the crucifixion by the resident legal bods. My body is ready.
Very short version of the practicalities of the SoGA:
After 6 months the onus is on the buyer to show that the item did not adhere to the SoGA at the point of sale.
Essentially, the independent report is the proof of this. The fault would be for example that parts were used that were not durable. They need this so that they can weed out claims for failures that have occurred due to negligent use etc.
From what they have said, if you can only use one of their approved repairers, then surely there is a pre-negotiated rate?
Either way, I am reasonably certain that the retailer would be liable for reasonable costs on obtaining a report if the retailer demands it.
Don't lose hope however, Currys offered a totally free repair on a 3 1/2 year old plasma TV for me recently. Their yardstick was that if the failure would have been something that would be covered under the manufacturers warranty, they interpret the SoGA that it would be repaired by them free of charge under the SoGA.
After 6 months the onus is on the buyer to show that the item did not adhere to the SoGA at the point of sale.
Essentially, the independent report is the proof of this. The fault would be for example that parts were used that were not durable. They need this so that they can weed out claims for failures that have occurred due to negligent use etc.
From what they have said, if you can only use one of their approved repairers, then surely there is a pre-negotiated rate?
Either way, I am reasonably certain that the retailer would be liable for reasonable costs on obtaining a report if the retailer demands it.
Don't lose hope however, Currys offered a totally free repair on a 3 1/2 year old plasma TV for me recently. Their yardstick was that if the failure would have been something that would be covered under the manufacturers warranty, they interpret the SoGA that it would be repaired by them free of charge under the SoGA.
They didn't state or give a list of their "pre-approved repairers", only that they wanted to know who we wanted to use to do the report before they would agree to it/the wording was thus:
"Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
"Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
Durzel said:
They didn't state or give a list of their "pre-approved repairers", only that they wanted to know who we wanted to use to do the report before they would agree to it/the wording was thus:
"Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
I bet you they've never ever spoken to trading standards................"Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
Durzel said:
They didn't state or give a list of their "pre-approved repairers", only that they wanted to know who we wanted to use to do the report before they would agree to it/the wording was thus:
"Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
Trading Standards are not the law. "Please be aware that all providers of fault reports must first be agreed by us the seller. Fault reports will not be accepted that have not been prior agreed in writing by us, and all relevant qualifications will need to be produced by the technician before the fault report is completed."
When I gave them the name of a local company that I found that could do it (for £35) they pretty much just said "that's fine, but we'll still only give you £25 because Trading Standards says that's ok".
They are just trying to make you jump through hoops to avoid a claim.
Trading Standards might have advised on a particular instance that they are now taking as rote. IIRC, when I spoke to Currys, they gave me the option of collecting it, or for me to get my own engineers report - IIRC they offered up to £50.
Two schools of thought here:
1) Suck up the tenner. Then argue if you want and threaten when the laptop's fixed.
2) Tell them that the information you have is that £35 is reasonable, and if the item does not adhere to the SoGA then legally they are liable for that £35, or give them the option of telling you exactly which local repairer will produce a report for £25.
You are right that if the product was faulty at point of sale you should not OVERALL end up out of pocket.
So if you have to pay X amoutn and prove the fault then they should re-imburse you that amount when the fault is proven.
So spend money to tmake money.
There is nothing in the SOGA that says they have to spend the money in this situation to find the fault (as obviously they could be innundated).
So if you have to pay X amoutn and prove the fault then they should re-imburse you that amount when the fault is proven.
So spend money to tmake money.
There is nothing in the SOGA that says they have to spend the money in this situation to find the fault (as obviously they could be innundated).
Mojooo said:
There is nothing in the SOGA that says they have to spend the money in this situation to find the fault (as obviously they could be innundated).
Good point well made there.Thanks all for the help, I agree that until we're at the next step it's somewhat pointless arguing the toss over £10.
The e-tailer in question certainly isn't small, so they ought to know better really. Mostly I just wanted some confirmation that I wasn't completely wrong on the SoGA.
Just to resurrect this...
Ended up getting an engineers report done (at a cost of £35), retailer was resolute in that the extent of their contribution towards it would be £25. Decided I didn't want to stop the whole machine from rolling (what else am I supposed to say if they are adament that they will only pay £25 and that Trading Standards "has ok'd this"?)
Anyway, engineers report confirmed the obvious - screen backlight failure. Sent off to retailer, who responded with an RMA number, and laptop duely sent back.
The colleague has today received a response back - subject line "Physical Damage" - saying the following:
Personally I'm minded to now progress this to legal action, but am unfamiliar with the process. Would I be right in thinking that I/she would need to issue a written notice of impending legal action, giving retailer a number of days (7? 14?) to reply, and then issuing a Small Claims Court summons against them?
Laptop probably isn't worth much, but the Retailer's attitude has seriously rankled me from start to finish, and they have form (going by Google) for trying to fob off their customers...
Ended up getting an engineers report done (at a cost of £35), retailer was resolute in that the extent of their contribution towards it would be £25. Decided I didn't want to stop the whole machine from rolling (what else am I supposed to say if they are adament that they will only pay £25 and that Trading Standards "has ok'd this"?)
Anyway, engineers report confirmed the obvious - screen backlight failure. Sent off to retailer, who responded with an RMA number, and laptop duely sent back.
The colleague has today received a response back - subject line "Physical Damage" - saying the following:
Retailer said:
Dear X,
The damage caused to your returned goods is not covered by warranty. The goods will be returned with no further action.
Kind Regards,
Retailer Returns Team
Now, it is patently obvious that there is no physical damage to the laptop. There is nothing to suggest it has been dropped or otherwise mistreated. No physical damage was noted on the engineer's report that Retailer was satisfied with.The damage caused to your returned goods is not covered by warranty. The goods will be returned with no further action.
Kind Regards,
Retailer Returns Team
Personally I'm minded to now progress this to legal action, but am unfamiliar with the process. Would I be right in thinking that I/she would need to issue a written notice of impending legal action, giving retailer a number of days (7? 14?) to reply, and then issuing a Small Claims Court summons against them?
Laptop probably isn't worth much, but the Retailer's attitude has seriously rankled me from start to finish, and they have form (going by Google) for trying to fob off their customers...
Sounds like a head office sort of complaint. Bypass the local level as they are generally drones and have limited authority. Press on and get a decision makers name and be firm, calm but persistent. A good compromise on the laptop would be a contribution to a new one, say £75 - 100. Not what you're after but as a procurement professional I would take that as a decent outcome as it's a marginal case.
We had a similar theme this year.
We bought an approved, used Honda Civic 2.2 from a Honda dealer. The spend loads prepping the car, new tyres, discs, pads and partial bodywork to bring it up to standard. 5 months and about 4000 miles later the missus said the clutch is slipping which is a common fault.
Cue a similar run around to yours before I got bored and SOGA'd them and asked them to prove the clutch was in good order at the point of sale and not misuse. Eventually got a £700 clutch replacement with the new upgraded part for nowt.
SOGA is there for you but timing is important as is the application od the reasonableness test. Would the average person expect that a £300 laptop would last more than 12 months? Difficult to say as they are almost disposable items at that level. A £300 fridge would be expected to last you many years so would be easier to argue on the reasonableness front.
We had a similar theme this year.
We bought an approved, used Honda Civic 2.2 from a Honda dealer. The spend loads prepping the car, new tyres, discs, pads and partial bodywork to bring it up to standard. 5 months and about 4000 miles later the missus said the clutch is slipping which is a common fault.
Cue a similar run around to yours before I got bored and SOGA'd them and asked them to prove the clutch was in good order at the point of sale and not misuse. Eventually got a £700 clutch replacement with the new upgraded part for nowt.
SOGA is there for you but timing is important as is the application od the reasonableness test. Would the average person expect that a £300 laptop would last more than 12 months? Difficult to say as they are almost disposable items at that level. A £300 fridge would be expected to last you many years so would be easier to argue on the reasonableness front.
Durzel said:
Personally I'm minded to now progress this to legal action, but am unfamiliar with the process. Would I be right in thinking that I/she would need to issue a written notice of impending legal action, giving retailer a number of days (7? 14?) to reply, and then issuing a Small Claims Court summons against them?
Does she want to do this? You spend many hours of your life on this and she goes off and buys a new laptop. Small claims results are very random - and you do not have any absolute right to a free repair - SoGA says goods should last a reasonable length of time, but it doesn't say that's without being repaired.Durzel said:
Laptop probably isn't worth much, but the Retailer's attitude has seriously rankled me from start to finish, and they have form (going by Google) for trying to fob off their customers...
I've either had complete success (including getting Dell to come to the house and repair a 3yr old laptop screen once) or total failure. Success has generally been with manufacturers, failure with retailers. You say they've got form - so they've done this many thousands of times before and they know what they're doing.new666uk said:
SOGA is there for you but timing is important as is the application od the reasonableness test. Would the average person expect that a £300 laptop would last more than 12 months? Difficult to say as they are almost disposable items at that level.
Er...I would imagine almost ANYONE would expect a £300 laptop to last more than a year. To be able to run the very latest software at the best performance possible? Maybe not with Moore's Law, but the screen on ANY laptop should last more than two years, never mind 1!When I say they've got form there is one prominent example on a Google search that relates to them losing in court after basically spinning the victim a very similar line about how it wasn't their responsibility, etc, and several other examples of people unhappy with their treatment and threatening court action.
This retailer isn't a high street one, they are an online one with (as far as I know) one place of business, so don't think there is anywhere to "go higher" as it were. Interestingly this retailer was caught out on Facebook last Christmas with a scoreboard in their office about "Rejected RMAs", etc so that should speak volumes for their general attitude to this stuff...
Regards SOGA and a £300 laptop, I don't imagine anyone would expect a laptop screen backlight to fail catastrophically after 2 years? The fault in particular - and the Retailer's attitude - is why I'm quite keen to push this all the way. I've even said to her that I would front the legal costs.
EDIT: As for "what does she want" - she wants a working laptop. To be honest she would have probably accepted a proportional refund or credit towards buying another one, but this retailer has been obstructive from start to finish.
This retailer isn't a high street one, they are an online one with (as far as I know) one place of business, so don't think there is anywhere to "go higher" as it were. Interestingly this retailer was caught out on Facebook last Christmas with a scoreboard in their office about "Rejected RMAs", etc so that should speak volumes for their general attitude to this stuff...
Regards SOGA and a £300 laptop, I don't imagine anyone would expect a laptop screen backlight to fail catastrophically after 2 years? The fault in particular - and the Retailer's attitude - is why I'm quite keen to push this all the way. I've even said to her that I would front the legal costs.
EDIT: As for "what does she want" - she wants a working laptop. To be honest she would have probably accepted a proportional refund or credit towards buying another one, but this retailer has been obstructive from start to finish.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 5th November 16:53
It's odd this and perhaps I missed part of it, but did you try the manufacturers at all?
My experience, a 3 year old Samsung LCD that I paid around £3k for (from an online retailer, Ebuyer I think), one side of the screen starts misbehaving and after a few days becomes completely unwatchable.
I contacted Samsung UK Customer Services and told them what had happened, they ask for proof of purchase. I emailed this off to them, wait a few days for a reply, they ask me to take it to my nearest service centre and get a report on what's wrong with it. (I had to pay £50 for the report)
Service report writes off the screen and says it's now NLA and declares the TV beyond economical repair. Samsung speak directly to their service centre to confirm what I had told them. A few more days pass and I was emailed a replay saying that due to the age of the TV they weren't prepared to offer a full refund and offered 45% towards the cost of any likewise model from any authorised dealer once I emailed them across the new receipt.
I pushed it a little further by buying a better TV for more money and they still offered the 45% and I got the money paid into my account just a day or so later.
I picked up the old TV and flogged it on Ebay for £175 not working!
Samsung now get all my purchases, they've brought my loyalty by being so good to deal with on a TV that was long out of warranty, but still within the SoGA.
(apart from their phones, I hate them plastic things)
Good luck getting it resolved, £300 or £3000 they should still follow the SoGA or lean on the manufacturer to provide a replacement or at least a repair.
My experience, a 3 year old Samsung LCD that I paid around £3k for (from an online retailer, Ebuyer I think), one side of the screen starts misbehaving and after a few days becomes completely unwatchable.
I contacted Samsung UK Customer Services and told them what had happened, they ask for proof of purchase. I emailed this off to them, wait a few days for a reply, they ask me to take it to my nearest service centre and get a report on what's wrong with it. (I had to pay £50 for the report)
Service report writes off the screen and says it's now NLA and declares the TV beyond economical repair. Samsung speak directly to their service centre to confirm what I had told them. A few more days pass and I was emailed a replay saying that due to the age of the TV they weren't prepared to offer a full refund and offered 45% towards the cost of any likewise model from any authorised dealer once I emailed them across the new receipt.
I pushed it a little further by buying a better TV for more money and they still offered the 45% and I got the money paid into my account just a day or so later.
I picked up the old TV and flogged it on Ebay for £175 not working!
Samsung now get all my purchases, they've brought my loyalty by being so good to deal with on a TV that was long out of warranty, but still within the SoGA.
(apart from their phones, I hate them plastic things)
Good luck getting it resolved, £300 or £3000 they should still follow the SoGA or lean on the manufacturer to provide a replacement or at least a repair.
Its a bit s
t, but that's the luck of the drawer with cheaper end laptops, I would expect a 3 year lifespan of heavy home use, when you strip them down you realise how cheap theory are
Its also the risk you take with smaller on-line sellers, the service they offer isn't always so good (not always the case)
If the owner was so concerned I would have purchased one with a 2/3 year warranty, extended warranties on laptops are probably worthwhile (if the policy is kosher)
Have you got a quote to fix it?
You might win if you argue well enough, but how much effort and time will it take?
t, but that's the luck of the drawer with cheaper end laptops, I would expect a 3 year lifespan of heavy home use, when you strip them down you realise how cheap theory areIts also the risk you take with smaller on-line sellers, the service they offer isn't always so good (not always the case)
If the owner was so concerned I would have purchased one with a 2/3 year warranty, extended warranties on laptops are probably worthwhile (if the policy is kosher)
Have you got a quote to fix it?
You might win if you argue well enough, but how much effort and time will it take?
Been in exactly the same situation. Issued a claim thro small claims court argued that not unreasonable to expect a life of at least 6 years and ask for 2/3rds of purchase price. Retailer paid up before court hearing(involved a lot of hassle). As purchase was made with a credit card made summons joint one including credit card company- they denied any liability until one week before hearing when they agreed to pay in full-I'd already done a deal with supplier by then.
Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Maybe it's just me but if we were talking about a failure of an easily replaced part that is known to have a limited life (e.g. hard drive) then I'd probably tell her to just suck it up and buy a replacement. It would also be simple enough to do this. By contrast I would not expect the screen/backlight to fail completely on any laptop after less than 2 years.
Also, this laptop - whilst fairly cheap - isn't a terrible spec. It was made by Acer, and had 4GB of RAM and was running Windows 7, so it's not some random "bought with tokens from Kelloggs cornflakes" model. It probably never played any games particularly well but was more than adequate for her parent's general usage, which is all they needed (and still need) it to do. I've been led to believe that it's had pretty light usage over those 2 years as well.
There hasn't been any kind of offer thus far from the retailer, not even a goodwill one. They have been obstructive from start to finish and - I'm confident - are operating under the belief, probably well founded, that most people either won't know their rights and/or will give up.
Also, this laptop - whilst fairly cheap - isn't a terrible spec. It was made by Acer, and had 4GB of RAM and was running Windows 7, so it's not some random "bought with tokens from Kelloggs cornflakes" model. It probably never played any games particularly well but was more than adequate for her parent's general usage, which is all they needed (and still need) it to do. I've been led to believe that it's had pretty light usage over those 2 years as well.
There hasn't been any kind of offer thus far from the retailer, not even a goodwill one. They have been obstructive from start to finish and - I'm confident - are operating under the belief, probably well founded, that most people either won't know their rights and/or will give up.
CoinSl0t said:
It's odd this and perhaps I missed part of it, but did you try the manufacturers at all?
Spoke to manufacturer first (Acer) and they said that it only had 1 year warranty through them. SOGA claims go through the retailer in any event. And to echo your point I've had good experiences with warranty claims with Samsung. That's the difference really, even a goodwill gesture or proportionate refund would've been an acceptable outcome, rather than what seems to be the case that the retailer is shirking their responsibilities.twokcc said:
Been in exactly the same situation. Issued a claim thro small claims court argued that not unreasonable to expect a life of at least 6 years and ask for 2/3rds of purchase price. Retailer paid up before court hearing(involved a lot of hassle). As purchase was made with a credit card made summons joint one including credit card company- they denied any liability until one week before hearing when they agreed to pay in full-I'd already done a deal with supplier by then.
Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Thanks. That's good to know.Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 5th November 17:21
Durzel said:
Now, it is patently obvious that there is no physical damage to the laptop. There is nothing to suggest it has been dropped or otherwise mistreated. No physical damage was noted on the engineer's report that Retailer was satisfied with.
Personally I'm minded to now progress this to legal action, but am unfamiliar with the process. Would I be right in thinking that I/she would need to issue a written notice of impending legal action, giving retailer a number of days (7? 14?) to reply, and then issuing a Small Claims Court summons against them?
Laptop probably isn't worth much, but the Retailer's attitude has seriously rankled me from start to finish, and they have form (going by Google) for trying to fob off their customers...
This is the important point.Personally I'm minded to now progress this to legal action, but am unfamiliar with the process. Would I be right in thinking that I/she would need to issue a written notice of impending legal action, giving retailer a number of days (7? 14?) to reply, and then issuing a Small Claims Court summons against them?
Laptop probably isn't worth much, but the Retailer's attitude has seriously rankled me from start to finish, and they have form (going by Google) for trying to fob off their customers...
They have asked that you obtain an independent report to show that the damage was not due to mistreatment. You have provided what they've asked for.
They are simply putting up one smokescreen (no pun intended!) after the next.
If I were you I'd go for it, all the way. I've taken half a dozen high street banks/comms/retailers to court. All have told me to foxtrot oscar in writing at every point until court papers arrive for them. Then they settle. In at least three of the cases, they've paid me for my time wasted in bringing the claim.
This can actually work to your advantage. If they played the game, they could have given you 40% of the cost of the laptop, or repaired it for £80 or so and walked away.
A Judge at the hearing most likely won't award you 100% of the purchase price back, but the point is after you file the papers, if you are obstinate and don't settle, unless they are willing to send a solicitor to your home court, they will default, and you'll get judgment in full. So they're stuffed either way and will settle. Their best case scenario at court is arguing that you are due a 50% refund and not 100% and it's going to cost them more than the whole laptop to entertain doing that.
What I would do:
1) Draft a final warning of legal action to the retailer and credit card company if it were purchased on one. Give them 14 days for a 100% refund, refund of the £35 spent on the engineers report at their request, and warn that you will be claiming for your time and court costs.
2) File the papers, naming joint defendants. I would claim the time spent going back and forth, including petrol getting the engineers report. Specify this on the claim. Claim at £18 per hour.
Now, if it goes to court, you might not get £18 an hour. However, on a small claim, I was recently awarded 81 hours at £18 an hour due to an unreasonable party, one who did not turn up at court. £18 is the figure in the Civil Procedure Rules.
Either way, they have the choice of settling with you setting, or going to court, with the knowledge that you are on a 90% sure case, and even if they win, they don't get their costs. On every occasion I have taken this approach, the Defendant has settled within days, including 'goodwill' for my time wasted.
have you priced up a new screen?
http://www.lcds4less.co.uk/index.shtml
http://www.lcds4less.co.uk/index.shtml
Edited by dudleybloke on Wednesday 5th November 18:06
Durzel said:
Maybe it's just me but if we were talking about a failure of an easily replaced part that is known to have a limited life (e.g. hard drive) then I'd probably tell her to just suck it up and buy a replacement. It would also be simple enough to do this. By contrast I would not expect the screen/backlight to fail completely on any laptop after less than 2 years.
Also, this laptop - whilst fairly cheap - isn't a terrible spec. It was made by Acer, and had 4GB of RAM and was running Windows 7, so it's not some random "bought with tokens from Kelloggs cornflakes" model. It probably never played any games particularly well but was more than adequate for her parent's general usage, which is all they needed (and still need) it to do. I've been led to believe that it's had pretty light usage over those 2 years as well.
There hasn't been any kind of offer thus far from the retailer, not even a goodwill one. They have been obstructive from start to finish and - I'm confident - are operating under the belief, probably well founded, that most people either won't know their rights and/or will give up.
It generally is a cheap and replacable part. Most 15.6 inch laptops use exactly the same screen with the same connector on the back. My mrs' Acer was easy. Remove 2 or 3 screws, prise off the surround, undo the screen screws and then swap screens.Also, this laptop - whilst fairly cheap - isn't a terrible spec. It was made by Acer, and had 4GB of RAM and was running Windows 7, so it's not some random "bought with tokens from Kelloggs cornflakes" model. It probably never played any games particularly well but was more than adequate for her parent's general usage, which is all they needed (and still need) it to do. I've been led to believe that it's had pretty light usage over those 2 years as well.
There hasn't been any kind of offer thus far from the retailer, not even a goodwill one. They have been obstructive from start to finish and - I'm confident - are operating under the belief, probably well founded, that most people either won't know their rights and/or will give up.
CoinSl0t said:
It's odd this and perhaps I missed part of it, but did you try the manufacturers at all?
Spoke to manufacturer first (Acer) and they said that it only had 1 year warranty through them. SOGA claims go through the retailer in any event. And to echo your point I've had good experiences with warranty claims with Samsung. That's the difference really, even a goodwill gesture or proportionate refund would've been an acceptable outcome, rather than what seems to be the case that the retailer is shirking their responsibilities.twokcc said:
Been in exactly the same situation. Issued a claim thro small claims court argued that not unreasonable to expect a life of at least 6 years and ask for 2/3rds of purchase price. Retailer paid up before court hearing(involved a lot of hassle). As purchase was made with a credit card made summons joint one including credit card company- they denied any liability until one week before hearing when they agreed to pay in full-I'd already done a deal with supplier by then.
Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Thanks. That's good to know.Send supplier a letter-recoded delivery clearing stating your case and amount that you are calamining and that if they have not paid in full within say 14 days. If payment not received you will pursue a small claim.
Good luck but you wont need it
PS add cost of engineers report to total amount claimed.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 5th November 17:21
I did another (HP) with the same screen, which meant I had to dismantle the laptop. However it was easy enough for someone with a bit of patience and who can follow instructions.
Stop fighting a petty battle and buy a 30 quid screen.
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