Advice please, AGTLAW, LoonR1, BV, Police officers.
Discussion
What ho chaps.
Looks like a bit of a personal disaster for me, my 3 year driving licence expires on 4/11/14, and it looks rather doubtful that DVLA are going to renew it anytime soon.
I'm an insulin dependant Diabetic, hence the three year period.
DVLA medical are very difficult to talk to these days, you generally get a recorded message telling you how they are too busy to take your call.
I've managed to speak to them twice in the last couple of weeks, the staff are very helpful and polite, but although they can't say for certain, they think it is very unlikely I'll hear anything before my licence expires.
They are being very honest, they sent me the paperwork in August, I returned it in August,it was booked onto their system in August, but my application hasn't even been looked at yet.
The lady I spoke to today suggests I use sect 88 ? of the road traffic act, she says to do this I need to see my doctor, make sure I have their approval to drive, notify my insurance and get their approval, and then legally I may drive until either my licence is revoked (unlikely) or they issue me a new licence.
I've spoken to my doctors surgery, they are going to ring me tomorrow, and I've spoken to my insurance broker, who have spoken to the underwriters, and they have said they'll continue to insure me on my present policy as long as they have a copy of the letter I must obtain from my doctor saying I'm ok to drive.
What if any pitfalls am I likely to face after the 4th of November ?
I guess I won't be able to hire vehicles, or drive outside of the UK ?
My van is registered to me, will the Police ANPR systems "ping" that the registered keeper has an expired licence ?
Would a Police Constable, at the side of the road, actually be happy with a doctors letter and an expired licence ?
I am also a named driver on several policies, wife, daughter, mate etc, am I going to need to notify them all ?
Many thanks in advance.
Looks like a bit of a personal disaster for me, my 3 year driving licence expires on 4/11/14, and it looks rather doubtful that DVLA are going to renew it anytime soon.
I'm an insulin dependant Diabetic, hence the three year period.
DVLA medical are very difficult to talk to these days, you generally get a recorded message telling you how they are too busy to take your call.
I've managed to speak to them twice in the last couple of weeks, the staff are very helpful and polite, but although they can't say for certain, they think it is very unlikely I'll hear anything before my licence expires.
They are being very honest, they sent me the paperwork in August, I returned it in August,it was booked onto their system in August, but my application hasn't even been looked at yet.
The lady I spoke to today suggests I use sect 88 ? of the road traffic act, she says to do this I need to see my doctor, make sure I have their approval to drive, notify my insurance and get their approval, and then legally I may drive until either my licence is revoked (unlikely) or they issue me a new licence.
I've spoken to my doctors surgery, they are going to ring me tomorrow, and I've spoken to my insurance broker, who have spoken to the underwriters, and they have said they'll continue to insure me on my present policy as long as they have a copy of the letter I must obtain from my doctor saying I'm ok to drive.
What if any pitfalls am I likely to face after the 4th of November ?
I guess I won't be able to hire vehicles, or drive outside of the UK ?
My van is registered to me, will the Police ANPR systems "ping" that the registered keeper has an expired licence ?
Would a Police Constable, at the side of the road, actually be happy with a doctors letter and an expired licence ?
I am also a named driver on several policies, wife, daughter, mate etc, am I going to need to notify them all ?
Many thanks in advance.
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Thursday 16th October 20:39
You need solictors advice pronto I think. These days I wouldn't be worried about a human copper, it's the ANPR cameras, databases, automated penalty notices and "computer says no" that would concern me in your shoes.
I'm sorry to hear you've got both the diabetes and the DVLA troubles, hope you get at least one sorted soon
I'm sorry to hear you've got both the diabetes and the DVLA troubles, hope you get at least one sorted soon
If you look on any insurance certificate, it will say that drivers "must hold a valid licence to drive or have held a licence and not be disqualified from holding one", or words to that effect. You meet that requirement so from an insurance point of view, you shouldn't have a problem on any policy that covers you, assuming they were told about your condition in the first place, which I'm sure they were.
I would be vary wary about a Dr's letter getting you off the hook. If you're stopped and a DL check and DVS check show you have no licence, you could well be waving goodbye to your car on the back of a low loader. I don't know the exact position you're in, but I'd be careful.
Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Thursday 16th October 20:52
Mk3Spitfire said:
I would be vary wary about a Dr's letter getting you off the hook. If you're stopped and a DL check and DVS check show you have licence, you could well be waving goodbye to your car on the back of a low loader. I don't know the exact position you're in, but I'd be careful.
Do you want to edit that or rewrite to make it more clear?Mk3Spitfire said:
I would be vary wary about a Dr's letter getting you off the hook. If you're stopped and a DL check and DVS check show you have no licence, you could well be waving goodbye to your car on the back of a low loader. I don't know the exact position you're in, but I'd be careful.
Could you check that for me please ?Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Thursday 16th October 20:52
What I've written is what I'm being advised to do by DVLA.
No licence, no job !
As well as the DR's letter, I'd want something from the DVLA, as they are the one's that issue the licences. If its expired on the DVLA system, then that's usually what we go with, unless you have something from the DVLA.
The DVLA are a nightmare at the best of times and even worse for a PC at the roadside, as they won't speak to us about your licence.
Everything has to be done through a DVLA liaison and there isn't always one available.
The DVLA are a nightmare at the best of times and even worse for a PC at the roadside, as they won't speak to us about your licence.
Everything has to be done through a DVLA liaison and there isn't always one available.
Whilst you are actively "in the system" for renewal of your licence your current Licence is valid, regardless of the expiry date: I'm Type 2 diabetic and on an annual licence. The system works fantastically well: I am sent a form to fill in and return; I do so and get the same form sent back approx. 3 months later stating I need to get it filled in by my GP. I get it done by my GP and send back. Guess what? The same form is sent back approx. 3 months later stating I now need to see a Consultant Diabetologist so I have an appointment made for me on the opposite side of London in the evening rush-hour. He endorses it and I finally get an "annual" licence sent back. In the 3 years this stupidity has been going on my April expiry ran to the end of August and my August expiry ran to December. When I do this again I expect another licence by Easter 2015!! I queried why the triplication and why not just send out a Consultant's appointmnet in teh first place. The dozy bint at DVLA could not answer except to say "it's policy"
When this happened to me I got a letter from the DVLA stating that they hadn't processed my licence in time and that I was fine to drive until it had been processed.
To be honest I don't remember having too much trouble getting the letter or with any thing after my licence 'expired' so hopefully you'll be ok.
To be honest I don't remember having too much trouble getting the letter or with any thing after my licence 'expired' so hopefully you'll be ok.
When this happened to me I got a letter from the DVLA stating that they hadn't processed my licence in time and that I was fine to drive until it had been processed.
To be honest I don't remember having too much trouble getting the letter or with any thing after my licence 'expired' so hopefully you'll be ok.
To be honest I don't remember having too much trouble getting the letter or with any thing after my licence 'expired' so hopefully you'll be ok.
Had a chat with Traffpol today...it will go on what your DL status says. So if DVLA are saying it's revoked then no Dr's letter will save you at the roadside. As mentioned above, DVLA won't deal with PC's and so we can only go on a PNC DL check or a DVS check if there's a trained operator. Advice Traffpol gave was to forward the Dr's letter to the DVLA ASAP and hopefully they'll reissue.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Had a chat with Traffpol today...it will go on what your DL status says. So if DVLA are saying it's revoked then no Dr's letter will save you at the roadside. As mentioned above, DVLA won't deal with PC's and so we can only go on a PNC DL check or a DVS check if there's a trained operator. Advice Traffpol gave was to forward the Dr's letter to the DVLA ASAP and hopefully they'll reissue.
I think you miss understand me.I am in no danger of having my licence revoked.
It just expires, DVLA have all the paperwork, they've had it since August, they just haven't done anything with it as yet.
My insurance are happy as long as they get a copy of the doctors letter.
My Doctor is happy, and is arranging for his secretary to type the letter.
So if stopped by you or one of your fellow Constables (and this in only likely to happen if ANPR pings me as licence expired ,not revoked, expired), I will be able to present you with the doctors letter, the insurance letter, and an expired licence.
It would appear I'm only in danger of any issues from Constables, as what I may be doing is lawful, but I'm reliant upon the Constable knowing that, and not reverting to Little Britain "computer says no" status, which I'm hoping is rather unlikely.
I've never been in the position of driving without a current licence before, I have a couple of weeks left, so I'm trying to get everything sorted now, whilst my licence is still in date.
This is cutbacks, nothing else, DVLA just don't have the manpower to deal with their workload now.
Apparently they just signed me off three years ago, without checking, so I'm rather hoping they do it again.
Nigel, have you got a letter from DVLA stating they are happy for you to drive while they sort out the status?
The recent advice I got from our DVLA liaison officer regarding driving licences included a bit about expired substantive.
Expired substantive can be subject to section 165 seizure and a FPN (although non endorsable). Some drivers may have a letter from DVLA allowing them to drive, even though the licence shows as expired - if that is the case, no seizure, no FPN, just note details and contact a DVLA liaison officer to check. If none available, allow to continue, report for offence, and chase up slow time.
The recent advice I got from our DVLA liaison officer regarding driving licences included a bit about expired substantive.
Expired substantive can be subject to section 165 seizure and a FPN (although non endorsable). Some drivers may have a letter from DVLA allowing them to drive, even though the licence shows as expired - if that is the case, no seizure, no FPN, just note details and contact a DVLA liaison officer to check. If none available, allow to continue, report for offence, and chase up slow time.
I had this problem last time my renewal was going through, I called them and they said that I was OK in the UK as the dvla systems would have a marker put against me that it was their admin delay causing the problem, I then pointed out that I was heading abroad and needed to drive they fast tracked my license and it arrived two days later.
So basically if you are driving in the UK you should be OK as the computer will say you are OK.
So basically if you are driving in the UK you should be OK as the computer will say you are OK.
Clipper22 said:
Nigel, have you got a letter from DVLA stating they are happy for you to drive while they sort out the status?
The recent advice I got from our DVLA liaison officer regarding driving licences included a bit about expired substantive.
Expired substantive can be subject to section 165 seizure and a FPN (although non endorsable). Some drivers may have a letter from DVLA allowing them to drive, even though the licence shows as expired - if that is the case, no seizure, no FPN, just note details and contact a DVLA liaison officer to check. If none available, allow to continue, report for offence, and chase up slow time.
Nope no letter, apparently sect 88 of the road traffic act covers it, so they tell me.The recent advice I got from our DVLA liaison officer regarding driving licences included a bit about expired substantive.
Expired substantive can be subject to section 165 seizure and a FPN (although non endorsable). Some drivers may have a letter from DVLA allowing them to drive, even though the licence shows as expired - if that is the case, no seizure, no FPN, just note details and contact a DVLA liaison officer to check. If none available, allow to continue, report for offence, and chase up slow time.
Report for offence ? what offence if it is allowed ?
Sorry Nigel, let me explain properly.
I stop you, you produce an expired substantive licence, usually cut and dried. However, this time, you have a letter from DVLA (preferred), or something else that casts doubt on your licence status (doctors letter, etc).
So, I try to contact my DVLA liaison officer - however, there is no-one available.
So, I report you for driving otherwise in accordance and send you on your way. I don't seize the car, I don't offer a FPN.
I then chase DVLA through our liaison officer - they say either you are entitled to drive (no further action) or that you aren't entitled to drive (I have reported you already, so submit a file).
I stop you, you produce an expired substantive licence, usually cut and dried. However, this time, you have a letter from DVLA (preferred), or something else that casts doubt on your licence status (doctors letter, etc).
So, I try to contact my DVLA liaison officer - however, there is no-one available.
So, I report you for driving otherwise in accordance and send you on your way. I don't seize the car, I don't offer a FPN.
I then chase DVLA through our liaison officer - they say either you are entitled to drive (no further action) or that you aren't entitled to drive (I have reported you already, so submit a file).
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