DVLA fine - pay up?

[N Dentressangle]

Two and a half years ago I sold a motorbike which was then on SORN to an overseas buyer. I filled in the correct form informing them of permanent export, wrote a letter informing them of my change of address too (I had moved house a couple of weeks earlier) and heard nothing more. I didn't chase this up, as I didn't realise it was my job to performance manage DVLA.

A month ago I got a letter from the debt collectors. £80 fine and threats of court action. Obviously I appealed, sending DVLA a copy of my original letter, plus proof of the sale & export. Predictably it was turned down, with another threat of legals if £80 wasn't paid.

I have no time or appetite for court appearances - before I just pay them their 80 quid and make them go away, is there something I've missed?

[WinstonWolf]

Yes, assuming you followed all the correct procedures let them take it to court, it won't make it past go...

Unless you like being blackmailed of course, in which case pay it

PS, you owe me eighty quid...

[aw51 121565]

N Dentressangle said:

... I didn't realise it was my job to performance manage DVLA. ...

It's not, despite what they say . "Contact us if you've not heard from us after 4 weeks", they say - it's not a statutory requirement (they are making it up).

N Dentressangle said:

... is there something I've missed?

Yes, see above.

This will go to court. After a morning of sharing a waiting room with DVLA's prosecutor who will be glaring balefully at you the whole time, he/she/it will offer no evidence when the case is finally called...

In the meantime, get your ducks in a row in terms of your evidence on a "just in case" basis (you'll thus feel more confident even though it's only a very small chance you'll have to use it in court ).

It's all unmitigated boocks, but one has to play the game to put them in their place .

[Denis O]

And how much of "OUR" money is being wasted by DVLA on this type of cobblers!!!

[EU_Foreigner]

From now on I expect people to chase a little more as they are getting the automatic tax refund (assuming they are not selling the car in the last month of the tax).

[johnao]

I always send any documentation to DVLA by Special Delivery and then print-out the "track and trace" receipt.

It cost about £6 but, it's cheaper than an £80 fine and all the aggravation. If they then claim not to have received the documentation I have a fairly watertight case in court if it ever went that far.

[anonymous-user]

OP, if you assert that you posted the notification, it is for DVLA to prove that it was not received. It is very hard for DVLA to do this.

[anonymous-user]

The DVLA must be on one at the moment, just had a letter from Inter Credit

Apparently my car was untaxed in 09/2012. Car was sold last year, I have no documents or any proof now that it was taxed at the time. I don't know what to do, I haven't had any comms from DVLA just this company and I cannot prove my innocence

[anonymous-user]

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

[anonymous-user]

Breadvan72 said:

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

Going to ring the company tomorrow and explain that I have never received anything from the DVLA and I want official communication from them.

I guess if their systems show it wasn't taxed and I cannot prove it was I am screwed though. I would have thought there was a reasonable length of time for them to be able to pursue me for this and 2 years was not on, especially as they had all my details to get in touch

[mygoldfishbowl]

Breadvan72 said:

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

But, just out of interest, how does that work? He'll get pestered by inter credit, can't they clamp the vehicle still for unpaid DVLA fines? If it does ever go to court what does he say when he has no proof?

Or in other words, how does he make them either prove he's guilty or go away?

[anonymous-user]

mygoldfishbowl said:

Breadvan72 said:

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

But, just out of interest, how does that work? He'll get pestered by inter credit, can't they clamp the vehicle still for unpaid DVLA fines? If it does ever go to court what does he say when he has no proof?

Or in other words, how does he make them either prove he's guilty or go away?

I'd love them to clamp the vehicle, the chap I sold it to was exporting it to Estonia or Latvia

But yes its a sticky situation to be in, I keep most documentation for 6 years for this kind of scenario but sold the car with all the old tax discs

[johnao]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Google... inter credit scam... and you'll find...www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk › ... › Motoring subforums › DVLA


"It has come to my attention that Inter-Credit International Ltd (ICIL) are issuing fraudulent debt recovery notices to people whose vehicles have in the past been SORN'd."

Edited to add: this might be a case of incompetence rather than "fraud"

Edited by johnao on Monday 20th October 17:29

[anonymous-user]

johnao said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Google... inter credit scam... and you'll find...www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk › ... › Motoring subforums › DVLA


"It has come to my attention that Inter-Credit International Ltd (ICIL) are issuing fraudulent debt recovery notices to people whose vehicles have in the past been SORN'd."

Edited to add: this might be a case of incompetence rather than "fraud"

Edited by johnao on Monday 20th October 17:29

Cheers have seen a couple of threads on MSE hinting that the wording is not right etc. I'm working at home tomorrow so might post up the letter for advice/sts and giggles.

[N Dentressangle]

Breadvan72 said:

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

Thanks. I know I did my bit - I'd pay the fine if I genuinely hadn't - but will going to court and showing them a copy of the letter I sent plus the Ebay sale page be enough?

Like most lay people I'm scared enough of legal threats to take the 'easy' option of making them go away.

Winston, your cheque's in the post: please don't hurt me.

[wolf1]

I've got a file full of these type of fines etc from dvla due to a previous buisness partner. None have been paid and the just get filed under ignore. No one has been round and nothing has happened. Some of them are years old.

[anonymous-user]

N Dentressangle said:

Breadvan72 said:

You don't have to. DVLA have to prove your guilt.

Thanks. I know I did my bit - I'd pay the fine if I genuinely hadn't - but will going to court and showing them a copy of the letter I sent plus the Ebay sale page be enough?

Like most lay people I'm scared enough of legal threats to take the 'easy' option of making them go away.

Winston, your cheque's in the post: please don't hurt me.

Your defence rests on (1) the fact that you sent the notice, and (2) section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978:-

"7 References to service by post.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

[Terminator X]

N Dentressangle said:

Two and a half years ago I sold a motorbike which was then on SORN to an overseas buyer. I filled in the correct form informing them of permanent export, wrote a letter informing them of my change of address too (I had moved house a couple of weeks earlier) and heard nothing more. I didn't chase this up, as I didn't realise it was my job to performance manage DVLA.

A month ago I got a letter from the debt collectors. £80 fine and threats of court action. Obviously I appealed, sending DVLA a copy of my original letter, plus proof of the sale & export. Predictably it was turned down, with another threat of legals if £80 wasn't paid.

I have no time or appetite for court appearances - before I just pay them their 80 quid and make them go away, is there something I've missed?

This is why they say no as do the LA's with parking tickets etc.

TX.

[N Dentressangle]

Breadvan72 said:

Your defence rests on (1) the fact that you sent the notice, and (2) section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978:-

"7 References to service by post.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

Thank you. In this thread:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

you seem to suggest that the Interpretation Act does not necessarily provide a defence, though. Thoughts?

[anonymous-user]

The point is arguable both ways, but if the court beiieves the evidence that a notice was sent, it might be inclined to adopt the view that favours the citizen against the DVLA.