Untaxed Vehicle / DVLA

Author
Discussion

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Yes, it's another DVLA/SORN topic.

I've just received a "Untaxed vehicle" notice on a car I have in one of the allocated parking spaces for my flat. The vehicle is SORN'd, so I'm guessing that the DVLA enforcement people have decided that being near a road if close enough...

I have confirmed with my local council that as long as it is parked in my space it is not considered to be on the highway, however the DVLA inform me they have no mechanism of logging this preventing further enforcement.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen next? From what I understand I will likely end up with a fine that I'll have to appeal, or the enforcement team will be back with a wheel clamp or lowloader to take the vehicle away. Is there any way of preventing this happening (except taxing the car!)


55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
egomeister said:
however the DVLA inform me they have no mechanism of logging this preventing further enforcement.
In 2014 the DVLA can't put a flag on a Reg No.?

They really are useless.

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
The Government website says..."Make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) if you don't use or keep your vehicle on a public road, eg you keep it in a garage, on a drive or on private land."

An allocated parking space must be "private land" in anybody's language, including the DVLA's. furious

If you are the freeholder, you own the land; if you're the leaseholder, you lease the land; if you're a tenant you rent the land. What's not "private land" in any of that?

Edited to add: send them a copy of your freehold/lease/tenancy agreement and tell them to stop being so stupid [in the politest possible way, of course]

Edited by johnao on Monday 20th October 15:38

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
johnao said:
The Government website says..."Make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) if you don't use or keep your vehicle on a public road, eg you keep it in a garage, on a drive or on private land."

An allocated parking space must be "private land" in anybody's language, including the DVLA's. furious

If you are the freeholder, you own the land; if you're the leaseholder, you lease the land; if you're a tenant you rent the land. What's not "private land" in any of that?
Yep, it's a marked space with my flat number on it - pretty obvious its not the road to most people.

And to the previous poster, no they can't add a flag to the reg, and yes they are pretty useless.



anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
The question is whether the car is on a "road repairable at the public expense". Is your space in a dedicated car park?

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
The question is whether the car is on a "road repairable at the public expense". Is your space in a dedicated car park?
It's dedicated parking for the flats, and specifically called out on the deeds. I've spoken to the highways department at the council who have said that as far as they are concerned its a private space and nothing to do with them. They are confirming this in writing for me.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
I am therefore assuming that the space is not on a road*. You could write to the DVLA to assert this fact, and maybe stick a notice on the car to that effect.



* Although you haven't made this 100% clear.

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
I am therefore assuming that the space is not on a road*. You could write to the DVLA to assert this fact, and maybe stick a notice on the car to that effect.



* Although you haven't made this 100% clear.
Yep, its off the road. I was planning to stick a copy of the councils confirmation in the car when it arrives.

Pic below for clarity:


egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
And before anyone asks.... MX5 (as if you didn't already know!)

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
In that case, to the crusher with it!

Viperz888

558 posts

157 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Take the numberplates off?

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
In that case, to the crusher with it!
Probably the best place for it hence its SORN status, but I'd like to be the judge of that rather than an overzealous DVLA employee!

B'stard Child

28,321 posts

245 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
DVLA really are stepping up a gear to try and recover the revenue lost from annual SORN

ohtari

805 posts

143 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
I've had an untaxed RX8 sitting on my driveway since the middle of July (no engine). I only got around to SORNing it a couple of weeks ago, and got the acknowledgement through today. whistle

Living in the arse end of nowhere has its perks from time to time...

B'stard Child

28,321 posts

245 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
ohtari said:
I've had an untaxed RX8 sitting on my driveway since the middle of July (no engine). I only got around to SORNing it a couple of weeks ago, and got the acknowledgement through today. whistle

Living in the arse end of nowhere has its perks from time to time...
So what makes you think they won't come after you for the un-sorn'd period biggrin

You've been under the radar and now effectively they been made aware by a declaration wink

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
egomeister said:
Breadvan72 said:
I am therefore assuming that the space is not on a road*. You could write to the DVLA to assert this fact, and maybe stick a notice on the car to that effect.



* Although you haven't made this 100% clear.
Yep, its off the road. I was planning to stick a copy of the councils confirmation in the car when it arrives.

Pic below for clarity:

It's not the DVLA you need to worry about. It's their trigger happy sub-contractor goons NSL.
Their definition of 'curtilage' and 'dwelling place' may be somewhat at odds with yours.
The sting is in the words 'other public place'. This is much wider than 'road'.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1120/conte...

Note that any marking in the parking space is not of itself conclusive.
You need to be particularly careful if your flat is leased from a Housing Association.

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
It's not the DVLA you need to worry about. It's their trigger happy sub-contractor goons NSL.
Their definition of 'curtilage' and 'dwelling place' may be somewhat at odds with yours.
The sting is in the words 'other public place'. This is much wider than 'road'.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1120/conte...

Note that any marking in the parking space is not of itself conclusive.
You need to be particularly careful if your flat is leased from a Housing Association.
Indeed, I get the impression that these contractors operate on the same guilty until proven innocent basis as TV licensing.

The spaces are called out on the deeds for the property - surely this makes it no different to a driveway? I appreciate that visually its a different proposition, but fundamentally the principles behind it should be the same?

The flat is leasehold but the land owner is private, not a Housing Association.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
[
It's not the DVLA you need to worry about. It's their trigger happy sub-contractor goons NSL.
Their definition of 'curtilage' and 'dwelling place' may be somewhat at odds with yours.
The sting is in the words 'other public place'. This is much wider than 'road'.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1120/conte...

Note that any marking in the parking space is not of itself conclusive.
You need to be particularly careful if your flat is leased from a Housing Association.
You are citing some irrelevant Regulations. The issue here is tax, not insurance.

egomeister

Original Poster:

6,698 posts

262 months

Monday 27th October 2014
quotequote all
Thread update time!

A letter has arrived from the DVLA this morning... pay £107 to settle or we'll take you to court.

Looking at the letter it's very vague what should be done if you wish to challenge the allegation (guilt is presumed!). Unfortunately you don't seem to be able to call a human using the number provided.

I'd assume that as I wish to challenge the offence, I reply to the letter with my "relevant information/supporting documents" and without a cheque for the fine (sorry, I mean out of court settlement). Does anyone know if this would close the door to their settlement offer, and require me to go to court to argue my case or would the info be appraised by the DVLA and the offer still stand if they rejected it?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th October 2014
quotequote all
If you reject an offer then it no longer stands, but it would be open to DVLA to renew the offer if it wished.

Just write a polite letter setting out the facts. That could be the end of it. It was when I received such a demand from the DVLA.