Tax refund on a rejected car

[ging84]

This is a hypothetical at the moment, but could end up becoming real for me in the next couple of days.

What is going to happen under the new tax system where someone buys a used car then rejects it. Now they must tax it themselves using the new keeper supplement before they can drive it on the road, even if it's still showing as taxed by the previous owner, so if anyone follows the correct procedure and pays for a full 12 or 6 months, then within days or hours wants to reject the car, and the dealer accepts it back.

Tax refunds are now automatic, so the previous keeper gets any left over tax when it is sold or sorned. From what i understand there is now no mechanism to return tax to anyone other than the RK. And the tax in the name of the person who rejected cannot be handed on with the car.

Now i suspect most sensible dealers will hold on to the log book for a week or 2, incase the car is returned, and as far as the dvla would know, there was never a change of keeper, so in this situation, how does someone get their tax back?

[Jon1967x]

Its still monthly - if you tax a car and reject it the same day you still pay for the month. If you tax a car on the 25th of a month and send the tax disk back on the 3rd of the following month you'll pay for 2 months.

I don't see why rejecting a car makes any difference to that - isn't it the same as just trading it in from a tax administration point of view?

[ging84]

yes i'm talking about the new rules
there's no such thing as a tax disc to return

losing one month i would kind of accept as a given, but the issue would be getting the other 5/11 months back

[SV8Predator]

ging84 said:

yes i'm talking about the new rules
there's no such thing as a tax disc to return

losing one month i would kind of accept as a given, but the issue would be getting the other 5/11 months back

What does it matter if there's no tax disc to return? There's still the mechanism to get your refund, per month, as explained above.

[ging84]

SV8Predator said:

What does it matter if there's no tax disc to return? There's still the mechanism to get your refund, per month, as explained above.

No there isn't, and if there where is it explained above?

there is a mechanism to get it refunded to the registered keeper on the dvla system
there is no mechanism i can see for getting it refunded to someone with a temporary green slip as it all seems automated

[Red Devil]

I can understand the OP's concern. Refunds of VED are linked directly to the change of RK record. DVLA won't act until they receive the relevant paperwork. So under the new rules he won't be able to get one for any VED that he has paid until he receives a V5C in his name and then sends the V5C/3 straight back to the DVLA to tell them the car is back in trade! Given that he will need to have the V5C/3 signed and dated with the dealer's signature that could be fun if the latter won't accept the rejection and refuses to sign the declaration.

Another unintended consequence that I bet the civil servants in their ivory towers never considered.

[A205GTI]

Except the refund will go back into the account of the payee, so if OP pays then asks for refund it will be put back on the card he paid with

[SS2.]

A205GTI said:

Except the refund will go back into the account of the payee, so if OP pays then asks for refund it will be put back on the card he paid with

As I understand it, direct debit over-payments will be refunded directly to the RK's bank account. Refunds for VED where the original payment was made by credit or debit card will be dealt with by cheque posted from DVLA.

[Red Devil]

SS2. said:

A205GTI said:

Except the refund will go back into the account of the payee, so if OP pays then asks for refund it will be put back on the card he paid with

As I understand it, direct debit over-payments will be refunded directly to the RK's bank account. Refunds for VED where the original payment was made by credit or debit card will be dealt with by cheque posted from DVLA.

Under the system that has just been ditched, if you had a valid tax disc and returned it to DVLA they refunded you when they received it. A relatively simple one step process. The new arrangements mean that you will get nothing until the V5C (or in the OP's case the V5C/3) is returned to Swansea and the DVLA has recorded the change of RK on their system. That is now the ONLY way to trigger a refund. If there are ANY problems with the V5C being issued to the OP or (assuming that goes without a hitch) the return of the V5C/3 to Swansea then the OP is screwed. Plenty of scope for error and we all know the DVLA's legendary ability to lose things and then adamantly deny any responsibility.

The DVLA is not an organisation I would trust with unfettered access to my bank account. Nor do I have much faith in their ability to correctly cease processing a DD. Don't forget that a DD is an authority for a third party to take funds until YOU tell your bank to rescind it. People using this method need to remember that. All DDs for VED (except the first one) will be set for collection on the 1st of each month. This means that the batch submission file will be transmitted at least 2 banking days earlier.

The OP was asking about the specific case of rejecting a car. Under the old system he could hang on to the disc. Now he is entirely at the mercy of third parties (the dealer and the DVLA).

[SS2.]

I'm aware how it works and was merely pointing out that credit or debit card rebates will not be refunded to the card used to make the original payment.

[mcflurry]

Was the car driven, or kept, on the road at any stage?

[Kong]

Sorry about the thread resurrection but I'm having a similar problem but I'm the seller.

Sold a car (bmw e61 for £4000) privately on Thursday and guy paid cash and filled in the v5c and later that night he taxed the car online using the green slip.

Unfortunately he's decided he doesn't want the car any more claiming faults I dispute. After a lot of threats I agreed to let him return the car this morning because I don't need the aggravation. We agreed I'd keep £100 for my hassle and we all walk away satisfied given the circumstances..

The problem is he wants a refund for the tax but I spoke to the DVLA and they said nothing can be refunded until I send off the v5c.

If I send off the v5c to him, then he sends it back to me I'll have 2 extra owners on the logbook which will reduce the cars value and make it harder to sell. Also I need to trust the DVLA, the postal service and most importantly the buyer to do their part properly. What if he gets the logbook in his name and forgets to send it or holds me to random?

I'm in two minds whether to sell the car to someone else or just keep it. If i keep it and do nothing can I just drive it using the tax he's paid? I'm happy to pay him the cost of the tax.

If I sell it to someone else using the normal channels (I still have the filled in v5c and green slip he used to tax it) what happens to the tax the seller paid? Does it go to his card or paid to me? Also can it be taxed twice using the same green slip? I don't want to sell it to someone else and find they can't tax it.

This seems so complicated, please can anyone help?!

[wibble cb]

Figure out how much 3 days tax would be and refund him, really how much could it be?

[Ed.]

wibble cb said:

Figure out how much 3 days tax would be and refund him, really how much could it be?

Dvla charge by the month, not the day so it will be £15~£45 for the month.
Then the OP would has to pay for the month again if he re taxes it in his name and there would be an additional owner.

I have never tried to undo a transaction with the dvla but it would be the best outcome.

[sim16v]

Kong said:

Sorry about the thread resurrection but I'm having a similar problem but I'm the seller.

Sold a car (bmw e61 for £4000) privately on Thursday and guy paid cash and filled in the v5c and later that night he taxed the car online using the green slip.

Unfortunately he's decided he doesn't want the car any more claiming faults I dispute. After a lot of threats I agreed to let him return the car this morning because I don't need the aggravation. We agreed I'd keep £100 for my hassle and we all walk away satisfied given the circumstances..

The problem is he wants a refund for the tax but I spoke to the DVLA and they said nothing can be refunded until I send off the v5c.

If I send off the v5c to him, then he sends it back to me I'll have 2 extra owners on the logbook which will reduce the cars value and make it harder to sell. Also I need to trust the DVLA, the postal service and most importantly the buyer to do their part properly. What if he gets the logbook in his name and forgets to send it or holds me to random?

I'm in two minds whether to sell the car to someone else or just keep it. If i keep it and do nothing can I just drive it using the tax he's paid? I'm happy to pay him the cost of the tax.

If I sell it to someone else using the normal channels (I still have the filled in v5c and green slip he used to tax it) what happens to the tax the seller paid? Does it go to his card or paid to me? Also can it be taxed twice using the same green slip? I don't want to sell it to someone else and find they can't tax it.

This seems so complicated, please can anyone help?!

How did he pay for the tax?

Ask him for his receipt for how he paid.

If he paid for 6 or 12 months you could either pay him for the remaining tax, or If you declare the car SORN, the remaining tax will be refunded, either through the bank account that paid, or by cheque to the registered keeper.

If it is still in your name and you can park the car off the road for a couple of weeks, do that?

If not, ask him for his receipt fo

[Ed.]

sim16v said:

Kong said:

Sorry about the thread resurrection but I'm having a similar problem but I'm the seller.

Sold a car (bmw e61 for £4000) privately on Thursday and guy paid cash and filled in the v5c and later that night he taxed the car online using the green slip.

Unfortunately he's decided he doesn't want the car any more claiming faults I dispute. After a lot of threats I agreed to let him return the car this morning because I don't need the aggravation. We agreed I'd keep £100 for my hassle and we all walk away satisfied given the circumstances..

The problem is he wants a refund for the tax but I spoke to the DVLA and they said nothing can be refunded until I send off the v5c.

If I send off the v5c to him, then he sends it back to me I'll have 2 extra owners on the logbook which will reduce the cars value and make it harder to sell. Also I need to trust the DVLA, the postal service and most importantly the buyer to do their part properly. What if he gets the logbook in his name and forgets to send it or holds me to random?

I'm in two minds whether to sell the car to someone else or just keep it. If i keep it and do nothing can I just drive it using the tax he's paid? I'm happy to pay him the cost of the tax.

If I sell it to someone else using the normal channels (I still have the filled in v5c and green slip he used to tax it) what happens to the tax the seller paid? Does it go to his card or paid to me? Also can it be taxed twice using the same green slip? I don't want to sell it to someone else and find they can't tax it.

This seems so complicated, please can anyone help?!

How did he pay for the tax?

Ask him for his receipt for how he paid.

If he paid for 6 or 12 months you could either pay him for the remaining tax, or If you declare the car SORN, the remaining tax will be refunded, either through the bank account that paid, or by cheque to the registered keeper.

If it is still in your name and you can park the car off the road for a couple of weeks, do that?

If not, ask him for his receipt fo

Assuming the buyer has taxed the car, does have a receipt and OP reimburses him. In 6 or 12 months he will get the reminder not the OP because he will still be the registered keeper not the OP.

Whats to stop the buyer taking the reimbursement money then in a few weeks when he gets the v5:
sorning it for a refund, or using it to sell a stolen vehicle, or using it to secure a logbook loan.
OP would have no way of knowing until the police stop him.

[wibble cb]

Ed. said:

wibble cb said:

Figure out how much 3 days tax would be and refund him, really how much could it be?

Dvla charge by the month, not the day so it will be £15~£45 for the month.
Then the OP would has to pay for the month again if he re taxes it in his name and there would be an additional owner.

I have never tried to undo a transaction with the dvla but it would be the best outcome.

Ah, I see- It's been over 12 years since I last taxed a car in th UK, but you'd have thought in this day and age , daily was possible!

[sim16v]

Ed. said:

Assuming the buyer has taxed the car, does have a receipt and OP reimburses him. In 6 or 12 months he will get the reminder not the OP because he will still be the registered keeper not the OP.

Whats to stop the buyer taking the reimbursement money then in a few weeks when he gets the v5:
sorning it for a refund, or using it to sell a stolen vehicle, or using it to secure a logbook loan.
OP would have no way of knowing until the police stop him.

I'd assumed the original owner still had the log book and hadn't notified DVLA of the change yet.

Buyer using the new keeper bit to tax the car, which doesn't provide a new V5.

[Ed.]

sim16v said:

Ed. said:

Assuming the buyer has taxed the car, does have a receipt and OP reimburses him. In 6 or 12 months he will get the reminder not the OP because he will still be the registered keeper not the OP.

Whats to stop the buyer taking the reimbursement money then in a few weeks when he gets the v5:
sorning it for a refund, or using it to sell a stolen vehicle, or using it to secure a logbook loan.
OP would have no way of knowing until the police stop him.

I'd assumed the original owner still had the log book and hadn't notified DVLA of the change yet.

Buyer using the new keeper bit to tax the car, which doesn't provide a new V5.

You may be right, the last car and bike I bought and sold, I submitted online. It tells you to destroy the green slips but the buyer could have done this.
It's just something you want to get sorted when the dvla could be getting two conflicting pieces of information and may choose the wrong one.

Edited by Ed. on Sunday 9th July 05:03

[Ed.]

wibble cb said:

Ed. said:

wibble cb said:

Figure out how much 3 days tax would be and refund him, really how much could it be?

Dvla charge by the month, not the day so it will be £15~£45 for the month.
Then the OP would has to pay for the month again if he re taxes it in his name and there would be an additional owner.

I have never tried to undo a transaction with the dvla but it would be the best outcome.

Ah, I see- It's been over 12 years since I last taxed a car in th UK, but you'd have thought in this day and age , daily was possible!

If I was feeling cynical I would say the dvla made changes to make their life easier and more profitable rather than anyone else's.