A risky undertake on the A11. Any opinions?

[Magog]

Phil303 said:

Okay, so you're basing your claim on 'I think he speeds up due to a deceptive frame rate', rather than the speed indicated on a GPS camera. Right.

No the speed on the GPS supports exactly what I'm saying. He drops down to 52, then up to 54 as the focus comes past then down to 53 after he's past then up to 57+ as he tries to chase him. Seems pretty conclusive to me, and given the lag on the GPS system pretty definitive that he did speed up.

[heebeegeetee]

LucreLout said:

For most of the video, he isn't. What he is doing is bimbling along in the overtaking lane while overtaking nothing. Eventually, just as he needs to be in the outside lane to pass the tractor, matey boy in the focus sends one up the inside, and appears to be bailed out of an impending smash by the car in front moving over having passed the tractor.
You can't reasonably tie up the outside lane mile after mile because the car in front hasn't moved over. If you're not passing something then you don't belong there. End of. There is no queue.

So lets say camera car wants to make progress. What should he do? Should he tailgate the car in front or should he stay in lane 1 and be passed by Focus and all and sundry, who may not want to make progress but definitely want to do more than the 50mph that the camera car had to slow down to?

[gruffalo]

He should over keep left unless overtaking, because you plan to overtake at some point in the future does not mean drive in the overtaking lane, it means stay left until you actually are going to carry out the overtake and then pull back in to the left.

Had the camera car done this then we would not be taking about this at all.

[Mave]

LucreLout said:

Passed him on the outside. Where do you think it would have gone?

I don't know, that's why I asked. If the camera car is in lane 1, and 2 seconds behind the car in lane 2, how can the focus pass him without reducing his separation from the car in front?

[heebeegeetee]

gruffalo said:

He should over keep left unless overtaking, because you plan to overtake at some point in the future does not mean drive in the overtaking lane, it means stay left until you actually are going to carry out the overtake and then pull back in to the left.

Had the camera car done this then we would not be taking about this at all.

Bearing in mind that you can't see what's in his mirrors, how do you know it isn't planned?

[anonymous-user]

Good job everyone on this thread is an impeccable driver otherwise that would make us a gaggle of hypocrites who may or may not have stayed in outside lanes a little longer than what's perceived to be technically correct, or had a reckless/thoughtless/lucky escape moment on the road.

[jmorgan]

heebeegeetee said:

LucreLout said:

For most of the video, he isn't. What he is doing is bimbling along in the overtaking lane while overtaking nothing. Eventually, just as he needs to be in the outside lane to pass the tractor, matey boy in the focus sends one up the inside, and appears to be bailed out of an impending smash by the car in front moving over having passed the tractor.
You can't reasonably tie up the outside lane mile after mile because the car in front hasn't moved over. If you're not passing something then you don't belong there. End of. There is no queue.

So lets say camera car wants to make progress. What should he do? Should he tailgate the car in front or should he stay in lane 1 and be passed by Focus and all and sundry, who may not want to make progress but definitely want to do more than the 50mph that the camera car had to slow down to?

It does not matter one jot what the perceived actions are of the camera driver, they seem OK on the face of it to me, reasonable in what I would expect considering distances and what is coming up. But there is no prior information and no rear facing shots.

The car undertaking put themselves in a dodgy position. No one else. They have control, they have the wheel and the means to speed up and slow down, they made the manoeuvre.

[LucreLout]

heebeegeetee said:

So lets say camera car wants to make progress. What should he do? Should he tailgate the car in front or should he stay in lane 1 and be passed by Focus and all and sundry, who may not want to make progress but definitely want to do more than the 50mph that the camera car had to slow down to?

Lets say everyone is driving properly. What is in lane 2? Yeah, nothing. So when you need to pass someone you can, and then you pull in. It's not difficult.
Using you view, lets say you have a 50 car block. How will the faster traffic ever pass the slower traffic if it never moves over? There's always an excuse to be in the over taking lane, but rarely an actual reason. So everyone has to wait for Gandalf up front to mosey over, and for all the slow traffic to pass the next slowest. Using my way, the faster traffic pulls out and goes through, meaning you're only ever waiting for faster cars to come through, such that when you pull out you go as fast as you wanted past people all of whom are going slower. Nobody tailgaits. Nobody gets delayed.
Keep left unless overtaking does not mean what you're trying to make it mean.

[ORD]

LucreLout said:

heebeegeetee said:

So lets say camera car wants to make progress. What should he do? Should he tailgate the car in front or should he stay in lane 1 and be passed by Focus and all and sundry, who may not want to make progress but definitely want to do more than the 50mph that the camera car had to slow down to?

Lets say everyone is driving properly. What is in lane 2? Yeah, nothing. So when you need to pass someone you can, and then you pull in. It's not difficult.
Using you view, lets say you have a 50 car block. How will the faster traffic ever pass the slower traffic if it never moves over? There's always an excuse to be in the over taking lane, but rarely an actual reason. So everyone has to wait for Gandalf up front to mosey over, and for all the slow traffic to pass the next slowest. Using my way, the faster traffic pulls out and goes through, meaning you're only ever waiting for faster cars to come through, such that when you pull out you go as fast as you wanted past people all of whom are going slower. Nobody tailgaits. Nobody gets delayed.
Keep left unless overtaking does not mean what you're trying to make it mean.

Try it with some toy cars on the carpet and see what happens. You very quickly develop a line of cars overtaking the slow car, something that you call a "queue" as soon as someone does not tailgate the car in front.

[Jazzer]

So the consensus is.....

We would not be having this discussion if the Daily-Mail-reading Dashcam man had driven according to the Highway Code, which required that he travelled in lane 1 until the point when he needed to initiate an overtaking manoeuvre.

Simples.

[otolith]

LucreLout said:

Lets say everyone is driving properly. What is in lane 2? Yeah, nothing. So when you need to pass someone you can, and then you pull in. It's not difficult. Using you view, lets say you have a 50 car block. How will the faster traffic ever pass the slower traffic if it never moves over?

The 50 car block *is* the faster traffic. And they're all as annoyed as you are at all those selfish bds in front who won't pull over and let them by. But being more selfish than you, they are not willing to stay in lane one and match the speed of the back of the queue because they know that some selfish bd who thinks he is faster traffic will then approach from behind and extend the queue further back. While moaning about the selfish bds in front, who are slower traffic.

[fatboy18]

Could you imagine this thread in court with all you experts out there, the case would be longer than the Oscar Pitorias Trial

[Mave]

LucreLout said:

Lets say everyone is driving properly. What is in lane 2? Yeah, nothing. So when you need to pass someone you can, and then you pull in.

If you're driving along in lane 1, doing say 80, there's a vehicle in lane 1 ahead of you doing 50 and a car in lane 2 overtaking at 70. At what point do you think it is ok to move into lane 2? Do you slow to 50, and wait in lane 1 until the other car has completed his overtake before moving into lane 2, or slow to 70, move to lane 2 and wait behind the other car to complete his overtake?

[LucreLout]

ORD said:

Try it with some toy cars on the carpet and see what happens. You very quickly develop a line of cars overtaking the slow car, something that you call a "queue" as soon as someone does not tailgate the car in front.

No, you don't, because it never has chance to build because instead of bimbling about giving it the "None shall pass", you're in the left, out of the way, and everything faster has passed each other.

[LucreLout]

Mave said:

If you're driving along in lane 1, doing say 80, there's a vehicle in lane 1 ahead of you doing 50 and a car in lane 2 overtaking at 70. At what point do you think it is ok to move into lane 2? Do you slow to 50, and wait in lane 1 until the other car has completed his overtake before moving into lane 2, or slow to 70, move to lane 2 and wait behind the other car to complete his overtake?

If someone's speed differential means they'd need to overtake you before you complete an overtake on the first car, just wait.
The roads are at capacity, so need using efficiently as opposed to "me first" selfish idiots blocking up the overtaking lane mile after mile.

[Mave]

LucreLout said:

Mave said:

If you're driving along in lane 1, doing say 80, there's a vehicle in lane 1 ahead of you doing 50 and a car in lane 2 overtaking at 70. At what point do you think it is ok to move into lane 2? Do you slow to 50, and wait in lane 1 until the other car has completed his overtake before moving into lane 2, or slow to 70, move to lane 2 and wait behind the other car to complete his overtake?

If someone's speed differential means they'd need to overtake you before you complete an overtake on the first car, just wait.
The roads are at capacity, so need using efficiently as opposed to "me first" selfish idiots blocking up the overtaking lane mile after mile.

That's not what I asked. Where does the faster car (the camera car) wait whilst the slower car (the car in front of the camera car) is completing his overtake?

[Cockey]

LucreLout said:

ORD said:

The cammer IS overtaking.

For most of the video, he isn't. What he is doing is bimbling along in the overtaking lane while overtaking nothing. Eventually, just as he needs to be in the outside lane to pass the tractor, matey boy in the focus sends one up the inside, and appears to be bailed out of an impending smash by the car in front moving over having passed the tractor.
You can't reasonably tie up the outside lane mile after mile because the car in front hasn't moved over. If you're not passing something then you don't belong there. End of. There is no queue.

But the camera car is following the car in front. His speed is being dictated by the car he's following. Why should he move over when he very possibly is waiting for the car in front to move over so he can make some progress?

This topic has really surprised me.

[Retroman]

Cockey said:

But the camera car is following the car in front. His speed is being dictated by the car he's following. Why should he move over when he very possibly is waiting for the car in front to move over so he can make some progress?

This topic has really surprised me.

And if more people join the queue it could easily be a few miles long where the inside lane only has 1 car, several miles ahead.
Kind of defeats the purpose of the overtaking lane if it gets to the stage you can make more progress in the inside lane.

[heebeegeetee]

LucreLout said:

Lets say everyone is driving properly. What is in lane 2? Yeah, nothing. So when you need to pass someone you can, and then you pull in. It's not difficult.
Using you view, lets say you have a 50 car block. How will the faster traffic ever pass the slower traffic if it never moves over? There's always an excuse to be in the over taking lane, but rarely an actual reason. So everyone has to wait for Gandalf up front to mosey over, and for all the slow traffic to pass the next slowest. Using my way, the faster traffic pulls out

Whoa! What faster traffic?!

This is the bit that i don't think you're getting. You haven't caught the car in front up because you are 'faster traffic', you've caught him up because he is being delayed.

LucreLout said:

If someone's speed differential means they'd need to overtake you before you complete an overtake on the first car, just wait.
The roads are at capacity, so need using efficiently as opposed to "me first" selfish idiots blocking up the overtaking lane mile after mile.

Why? What difference does it make? if there are two cars then one of them has to apply the 'me first', and that being the case why not apply it to the car that got there first, just as you would in every other situation everywhere?

[LucreLout]

Mave said:

That's not what I asked. Where does the faster car (the camera car) wait whilst the slower car (the car in front of the camera car) is completing his overtake?

If he's not currently overtaking then wait in the left lane. Keep left unless overtaking does not mean keep left unless overtaking if the car in front finishes passing if it moves back to the left if if if.
Keep left unless overtaking.