A risky undertake on the A11. Any opinions?

[Bigends]

tony wright said:

the_lone_wolf said:

Anybody notice that the camera car's speed dropped from ~70 to ~50mph quite rapidly shortly before the Focus came flying past, then speeds up as it goes past? GPS speed signals are delayed by a second or so so won't be quite real time

Focus approaching fast, flashes lights, driver responds by hitting the brakes, Focus then decides to perform daft undertaking manoeuvre perhaps?

No excuses for the dangerous undertake, but IMHO there's more to this than the article reports...

Looks like he was slowing to allow the car to pull out as it approached the tractor in the inside lane.

If he was slowing to allow him through then why post the footage - crap driving by the Focus - why not wait until the camera car had got past the tractor?

[anonymous-user]

i feel that the Focus is in the wrong if anything did go wrong. Looking at the speeds on the camera they seem appropriate, considering he was leaving space for the car ahead to pull out without getting up his chuff.

In addition, on the left is a diner and BP station and just where this video stops is a slip road for traffic from these entering back onto the A11. If he wasn't in the right hand lane because of the tractor then chances are he may have been inclined to move over anyway to let traffic out.

It's a fairly nice bit of road prior to the segment we can see here. The Focus driver should have been aware of the tractor and/or the slower traffic long before now and moved over to pass, behind the camera car, irrespective of whether they were doing 50/60/70 mph. He'd have still overtaken the tractor without it inconveniencing him down too much. Then the camera car would have pulled over back to left and Focus driver would have been off again.

I can't see what the camera driver does to warrant criticism other than slow a little to maintain a gap when cars are pulling out to overtake.

[RWD cossie wil]

Moving ever closer to 1984 every day....

[Lotus 50]

FWIW in my view the person driving the car with the dash cam should have been in the left hand lane for the first 15-20secs of the video. He/she wasn't overtaking anyone. As others have suggested it looks as though the driver of the blue Focus got frustrated, undertook and seriously underestimated the closing speed between him and the tractor. Very lucky not to have caused a big accident.

[Bigends]

Lotus 50 said:

FWIW in my view the person driving the car with the dash cam should have been in the left hand lane for the first 15-20secs of the video. He/she wasn't overtaking anyone. As others have suggested it looks as though the driver of the blue Focus got frustrated, undertook and seriously underestimated the closing speed between him and the tractor. Very lucky not to have caused a big accident.

But he was always gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane - without someone up his backside flashing to get by - why move over - he'd have moved into the nearside lane only to almost move straight back into the offside lane to overtake - no point

[otolith]

I do remember someone feeling the need to pull a similar move on me once, I wasn't lane hogging, I was at the back of a line of traffic which was passing slower vehicles in lane one. I think he was offended because I had left a safe gap in front of me.

I suspect the Focus driver would have been quite happy if the dashcam driver had been up the chuff of the car in front. Poor observation and impatience. Lane hogging is annoying, but not as annoying as being stuck in the traffic while they hose that kind of nobber out of his car.

[lbc]

Lotus 50 said:

FWIW in my view the person driving the car with the dash cam should have been in the left hand lane for the first 15-20secs of the video. He/she wasn't overtaking anyone.

That's the way I see it also.

The camera car was not making any progress and with nothing on the inside lane, that is where it should have been.

I have seen this behaviour before with cars obviously fitted with a camera, and am sure they drive like this just to wind people up and force other drivers to take action so they have something to film, as is what happened with the Focus.

[Bigends]

lbc said:

Lotus 50 said:

FWIW in my view the person driving the car with the dash cam should have been in the left hand lane for the first 15-20secs of the video. He/she wasn't overtaking anyone.

That's the way I see it also.

The camera car was not making any progress and with nothing on the inside lane, that is where it should have been.

I have seen this behaviour before with cars obviously fitted with a camera, and am sure they drive like this just to wind people up and force other drivers to take action so they have something to film, as is what happened with the Focus.

He was always gaining on stuff in lane 1 - eases off to let the car in front overtake the tractor before the half wit in the Focus does his thing

Edited by Bigends on Monday 27th October 17:31

[Lotus 50]

Bigends said:

But he was always gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane - without someone up his backside flashing to get by - why move over - he'd have moved into the nearside lane only to almost move straight back into the offside lane to overtake - no point

Yes but the point is that you should keep left unless overtaking. The person driving the car with the dash cam wasn't overtaking and could easily have moved over - especially if they'd looked in their mirror and seen the Focus catching them quickly or sitting behind them waiting to overtake. Just because you're gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane doesn't mean that you should sit in the right hand lane.

[Bigends]

Lotus 50 said:

Bigends said:

But he was always gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane - without someone up his backside flashing to get by - why move over - he'd have moved into the nearside lane only to almost move straight back into the offside lane to overtake - no point

Yes but the point is that you should keep left unless overtaking. The person driving the car with the dash cam wasn't overtaking and could easily have moved over - especially if they'd looked in their mirror and seen the Focus catching them quickly or sitting behind them waiting to overtake. Just because you're gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane doesn't mean that you should sit in the right hand lane.

Doesnt stop you either unless somethings desperate to get past - driver of the camera car would probably have had a better view of whats ahead than the camera shows

Edited by Bigends on Monday 27th October 17:34

Edited by Bigends on Monday 27th October 17:37

[Lotus 50]

But what about driving according to the highway code?

"137 On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.

138 On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe."

From the video given there's no reason for the driver of the dash cam car not to have moved over to the left hand lane for the first 15-20 secs of the video aside from laziness. If the preceding footage had shown him to have sat in the right hand lane for longer then, in my view, he'd have definitely been lane hogging. That's not excusing the idiotic undertake btw.

[anonymous-user]

Lotus 50 said:

Bigends said:

Yes but the point is that you should keep left unless overtaking. The person driving the car with the dash cam wasn't overtaking and could easily have moved over - especially if they'd looked in their mirror and seen the Focus catching them quickly or sitting behind them waiting to overtake. Just because you're gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane doesn't mean that you should sit in the right hand lane.

But there was more than the tractor to consider. As I stated, there is a slip road on the left for cars leaving the services. He may well have been driving pre-empting the tractor, the cars pulling out in front to pass the tractor and the traffic coming from the services back onto the A11. Meanwhile, Focus driver is caning it and rapidly catches up, oblivious to what's causing the (slight) slow-down. Just because he didn't leave it until the last minute doesn't make him a bad driver.

We don't know if camera car had moments earlier moved to the right. Don't forget he submitted the video to the police. I presume they would have watched the footage prior to this clip. Would you present them 5 minutes of you filming yourself carrying out non-overtaking in the outside lane before criticising another driver?

Further more, the driver is from Attleborough so knows this stretch of road; he'd be aware of the services and how there is nearly always traffic joining the left-hand lane. Plus look how the Focus driver barges past the next car - did he even brake?

Edited by Phil303 on Monday 27th October 17:47

[mybrainhurts]

ORD said:

the Focus carried out a really stupid and dangerous overtake that almost got him and potentially others killed.

Is that a bit of BRAKEesque emotion, or do you base the near-death thing on solid science?

[Bigends]

Phil303 said:

Lotus 50 said:

Bigends said:

Yes but the point is that you should keep left unless overtaking. The person driving the car with the dash cam wasn't overtaking and could easily have moved over - especially if they'd looked in their mirror and seen the Focus catching them quickly or sitting behind them waiting to overtake. Just because you're gaining on vehicles in the nearside lane doesn't mean that you should sit in the right hand lane.

But there was more than the tractor to consider. As I stated, there is a slip road on the left for cars leaving the services. He may well have been driving pre-empting the tractor, the cars pulling out in front to pass the tractor and the traffic coming from the services back onto the A11. Meanwhile, Focus driver is caning it and rapidly catches up, oblivious to what's causing the (slight) slow-down. Just because he didn't leave it until the last minute doesn't make him a bad driver.

We don't know if camera car had moments earlier moved to the right. Don't forget he submitted the video to the police. I presume they would have watched the footage prior to this clip. Would you present them 5 minutes of you filming yourself carrying out non-overtaking in the outside lane before criticising another driver?

Further more, the driver is from Attleborough so knows this stretch of road; he'd be aware of the services and how there is nearly always traffic joining the left-hand lane. Plus look how the Focus driver barges past the next car - did he even brake?

Edited by Phil303 on Monday 27th October 17:47

I use a road similar to this every day - has a service station with short slip road on the nearside - traffic entering the dual carriageway doesnt have time to get up to speed before entering lane 1. The service station is preceded by a haulage yard from which trucks also have to enter the road from a standstill with no opportunity to gain speed either. I'm always in the offside lane long before I reach both regardless of whats in the nearside lane to avoid the traffic entering the road with little or no warning - doubtless the driver of the camera car was doing the same and not just dumbly sitting in the nearside lane.

[heebeegeetee]

Lotus 50 said:

But what about driving according to the highway code?

"137 On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.

138 On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe."

From the video given there's no reason for the driver of the dash cam car not to have moved over to the left hand lane for the first 15-20 secs of the video aside from laziness. If the preceding footage had shown him to have sat in the right hand lane for longer then, in my view, he'd have definitely been lane hogging. That's not excusing the idiotic undertake btw.

From what we see on the film, I disagree with you. The driver is approaching the services and a slow tractor, so it would be foolish of him to pull into L1.

The Focus driver simply hasn't seen the tractor until too late imo.

The camera car's action of slowing down has very possibly avoided a big accident.

[mybrainhurts]

heebeegeetee said:

From what we see on the film, I disagree with you. The driver is approaching the services and a slow tractor, so it would be foolish of him to pull into L1.

The Focus driver simply hasn't seen the tractor until too late imo.

The camera car's action of slowing down has very possibly avoided a big accident.

If he'd been in lane 1 long ago, the situation wouldn't have arisen.

[tony wright]

Bigends said:

tony wright said:

the_lone_wolf said:

Anybody notice that the camera car's speed dropped from ~70 to ~50mph quite rapidly shortly before the Focus came flying past, then speeds up as it goes past? GPS speed signals are delayed by a second or so so won't be quite real time

Focus approaching fast, flashes lights, driver responds by hitting the brakes, Focus then decides to perform daft undertaking manoeuvre perhaps?

No excuses for the dangerous undertake, but IMHO there's more to this than the article reports...

Looks like he was slowing to allow the car to pull out as it approached the tractor in the inside lane.

If he was slowing to allow him through then why post the footage - crap driving by the Focus - why not wait until the camera car had got past the tractor?

Sorry, I think we are on different tracks. I meant he was slowing for the Grey car (think possibly Mini) not the Blue Focus.

[Bigends]

tony wright said:

Bigends said:

tony wright said:

the_lone_wolf said:

Anybody notice that the camera car's speed dropped from ~70 to ~50mph quite rapidly shortly before the Focus came flying past, then speeds up as it goes past? GPS speed signals are delayed by a second or so so won't be quite real time

Focus approaching fast, flashes lights, driver responds by hitting the brakes, Focus then decides to perform daft undertaking manoeuvre perhaps?

No excuses for the dangerous undertake, but IMHO there's more to this than the article reports...

Looks like he was slowing to allow the car to pull out as it approached the tractor in the inside lane.

If he was slowing to allow him through then why post the footage - crap driving by the Focus - why not wait until the camera car had got past the tractor?

Sorry, I think we are on different tracks. I meant he was slowing for the Grey car (think possibly Mini) not the Blue Focus.

Agreed - only one to blame on here - the Focus driver - no way can they justify that move

Edited by Bigends on Monday 27th October 18:18

[heebeegeetee]

mybrainhurts said:

If he'd been in lane 1 long ago, the situation wouldn't have arisen.

We don't know that. One problem in the uk imo is the propensity of many to baulk others in. As we know, there is a slow moving tractor ahead and a services where no doubt people pull out regardless. The camera car has preserved his speed largely and helped avoid what could have been a big shunt. I have no problem with his driving at all.

Of course were we to learn that the cam car has hogged the lane then I might think differently, but I'm just commenting on what we know.

The Focus looks like the typical muppet who can't see beyond the end of his bonnet.

[Magog]

There's no sound, but I think there is a chance the camera car driver might spot the focus in his mirrors and then gun it to try and close the door on him... I'm assuming there is a lag on the GPS speed but he's still gathering speed after the focus has passed him.