Risk of girlfriend 'taking half' some day?

[anonymous-user]

M3CS said:

Centurion07 said:

You asked yourself why....?

It's very easy to say that. Consider this.... I've had to save up for this house for over a decade, so I'm naturally going to consider any risks which might mean losing substantial proportions of what little wealth I've worked so very hard to build up (for 8 years more than I've known my girlfriend!).

The fact is that many relationships fail, especially when people begin to live together. It's probably when you learn the most about them.
I obviously realised what I said to my girlfriend would lead to her having questions in her head, but I needed to ask. She could have been fine with it, believe it or not...she's a very reasonable person and listens to others' point of view. If that had happened, I'd not be here talking to PistonHeads about something other than fast cars and Welshbeef's latest 'purchase'!

When you take out insurance on a car, you're not declaring "I think I will crash" nor does having insurance mean you're fated to crash. To think something like a cohabitation agreement is a declaration that you think you've got no future together is a bit juvenile, in my humble opinion. If that's what she thinks, I want to talk about it like adults rather than just shying away from it and thinking "it will all work out fine". Before I do that, I'm here asking you guys if it's even necessary to pursue talking about it with her, from a future litigation risk standpoint - leaving aside how you'd personally handle it with your significant other.

So, thanks to those who actually gave their opinion in response to the core question, instead of critiquing my relationship skills.

Have you asked her why she is not happy with some sort of written agreement?

[HonestIago]

The Mad Monk said:

Why not keep both properties? See each other 2/3 times a week, weekends, perhaps as well. She stays at your place from time to time and you stay at her place from time to time as well.

Nobody moves in, that way you keep the excitement going and nobody can have a claim on the others property.

+1

I'm a bit traditional in my outlook I'm afraid but if your girlfriend (not wife) lives with you and sleeps with you but doesn't contribute to the mortgage or pay rent...then what is she exactly? Would you be happy with the situation if she stopped sleeping with you?
Not a setup I'd want a daughter of mine to ever put themselves in.

[oldnbold]

Not sure if this will help you OP but my youngest daughter purchased a house last year with her BF. The deposit and stamp duty/ legal costs came entirly from her, including her selling her car (he kept his). He however insisted that the solicitor draw up a document protecting her money in the event of a split.

I should add that he now earns approx double what she does so probably contributes more to the joint living costs.

My point is this agreement didn't sour the relationship, in fact that got engaged a couple of months ago.

[Pit Pony]

oldnbold said:

Not sure if this will help you OP but my youngest daughter purchased a house last year with her BF. The deposit and stamp duty/ legal costs came entirly from her, including her selling her car (he kept his). He however insisted that the solicitor draw up a document protecting her money in the event of a split.

I should add that he now earns approx double what she does so probably contributes more to the joint living costs.

My point is this agreement didn't sour the relationship, in fact that got engaged a couple of months ago.

You see, from a bloke's point of view this works well. Bloke is saying "trust me, I don't want you for your money, but your personality, and for the fun of being with you"
And the woman hears "I respect you"

If a woman suggested to a man that she protect her investment, by him signing a bit of paper, the bloke would think "ah, she's a bit precious, but hey I'm getting laid, so who cares"

[AndrewCrown]

Sir

I think you are absolutely right just to take some advice...
She will have no claim over this property whatsover. If as you say she is simply sharing day to day living costs.. Some case histories for you...

1. A friend of mine had a situation, exactly as yours... where in the end it did go wrong, the girl concerned got all flouncy and tried to claim part of his house..she was poorly advised by her friends and one solicitor's letter made her forget the idea.

2. My girlfriend's ex also tried to claim a financial settlement having lived in her house, contributing very little... he was all talk and bluster as he was pissed off with the split... he did not get a sausage...again after one well aimed solicitor's letter

3. I bought a house, fully in my name, but my g/f did contribute to the mortgage... alas when we did spilt I managed to come up with a formula which gave her a fair settlement on her contribution.

4. And my daftest one... we had a shared ownership and I walked away without claim simply as I could not hack her madness... just let her have the house..

Naturally this all changes if you choose to get married but in the meantime... relax you are ok.. its all yours...

Best of luck

A

M3CS said:

It's very easy to say that. Consider this.... I've had to save up for this house for over a decade, so I'm naturally going to consider any risks which might mean losing substantial proportions of what little wealth I've worked so very hard to build up (for 8 years more than I've known my girlfriend!).

The fact is that many relationships fail, especially when people begin to live together. It's probably when you learn the most about them.
I obviously realised what I said to my girlfriend would lead to her having questions in her head, but I needed to ask. She could have been fine with it, believe it or not...she's a very reasonable person and listens to others' point of view. If that had happened, I'd not be here talking to PistonHeads about something other than fast cars and Welshbeef's latest 'purchase'!

When you take out insurance on a car, you're not declaring "I think I will crash" nor does having insurance mean you're fated to crash. To think something like a cohabitation agreement is a declaration that you think you've got no future together is a bit juvenile, in my humble opinion. If that's what she thinks, I want to talk about it like adults rather than just shying away from it and thinking "it will all work out fine". Before I do that, I'm here asking you guys if it's even necessary to pursue talking about it with her, from a future litigation risk standpoint - leaving aside how you'd personally handle it with your significant other.

So, thanks to those who actually gave their opinion in response to the core question, instead of critiquing my relationship skills.

[LucreLout]

OP - one thing you can be sure of is that the law and the rules will change. They already have several times in my life and I'm not in old giffer territory yet.
The rule changes to come will favour the lady, for that has been the direction of travel all my life. It's not right or wrong, it just is.
The only real protection you will have is to charge her rent. You can always pay for other things and make gifts to her approximate the value of the rent, but you need an AST and you need a standing order marked "rent" and you need to keep signing new ASTs in line with tenancy laws.

[anonymous-user]

LucreLout said:

OP - one thing you can be sure of is that the law and the rules will change. They already have several times in my life and I'm not in old giffer territory yet.
The rule changes to come will favour the lady, for that has been the direction of travel all my life. It's not right or wrong, it just is.
The only real protection you will have is to charge her rent. You can always pay for other things and make gifts to her approximate the value of the rent, but you need an AST and you need a standing order marked "rent" and you need to keep signing new ASTs in line with tenancy laws.

You cannot be a tenant if the landlord lives in the same property. That's a lodger situation.

[singlecoil]

And it will all become irrelevant as soon the pregnancy test shows positive

[anonymous-user]

singlecoil said:

And it will all become irrelevant as soon the pregnancy test shows positive

Ooh, you cynic

[Old Merc]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

May be you could consider this ??

[CountZero23]

garyhun said:

singlecoil said:

And it will all become irrelevant as soon the pregnancy test shows positive

Ooh, you cynic

Yup, no way out of that one

Had some worries about this when I moved my OH in, essentially though as others have said as long as she is paying the money to YOU and not directly paying bills or the mortgage then you're all good.

Well, up until the aforementioned point...

[9mm]

Centurion07 said:

surveyor said:

I've never really got these threads.

The girl you love, the one you want to make a life with, have children with, share your feelings, thoughts is moving in.

But you are worried about some fable of her taking half......

I can understand why she feels a little putout, it's not exactly in the spirit of the moment.

Maybe it's because ALL relationships start off as you describe, even the ones that fail. So regardless of the feelings at the start, since no-one is able to predict the future it seems fairly sensible for OP to want to protect what is his.

It's very easy to take a rose-tinted view when both partners have the same amount of money. Of course, this is most likely when people shack up or marry for the first time in their lives. If that relationship breaks up, a 50:50 split is usually hard to dispute.

Then consider marrying someone when you are in your fifties, when you are worth say £500K and they, £100K. What if that relationship turns sour, is 50:50 even beginning to be right?

The biggest problem is that you can recover when you're young; you have decades of earning ahead of you. Later in life your ability to earn money is time-limited and you don't have the time or ability to recover from a financial disaster.

As an older man, I'd only go into co-habitation having some sort of written agreement. To those who say it may have no legal standing I would say I don't care. In the absence of the law backing me up, I'd want that piece of paper to show that I at least had the moral high ground.

PS Agreements don't mean you think a relationship is going to fail. No sane person thinks that. However, what's the divorce rate?

Edited by 9mm on Wednesday 29th October 12:54

[LucreLout]

garyhun said:

You cannot be a tenant if the landlord lives in the same property. That's a lodger situation.

Fair enough. Have her sign whatever lodgers sign then.

Presumably there's a legal framework to prevent long term lodgers seeking economic interest in the lodgings?

[Old Merc]

If your just living with someone its best to get a solicitor to draw up a legal document,"declaration of trust" I think its called.

Marriage normally changes everything but even then a "prenupe" may be necessary? and a will is always essential.

You never know whats round the corner.??

My sister bought a property with her own money and lived alone for a few years.Her boyfriend who had no property or capital (he was a bit of a waster) moved in and did not pay anything,they eventually married.
A few years later my sister died in tragic circumstances.As there was no will my sister`s house was his.
He sold it and pissed off.I got loads of advice but there was nothing I could do.

[surveyor]

Old Merc said:

If your just living with someone its best to get a solicitor to draw up a legal document,"declaration of trust" I think its called.

Marriage normally changes everything but even then a "prenupe" may be necessary? and a will is always essential.

You never know whats round the corner.??

My sister bought a property with her own money and lived alone for a few years.Her boyfriend who had no property or capital (he was a bit of a waster) moved in and did not pay anything,they eventually married.
A few years later my sister died in tragic circumstances.As there was no will my sister`s house was his.
He sold it and pissed off.I got loads of advice but there was nothing I could do.

What did you want?

I really don't get it. If my partner / wife does not work and supports me while I work, raising my family, why would I not think she should get half?

[Old Merc]

surveyor said:

What did you want?

I really don't get it. If my partner / wife does not work and supports me while I work, raising my family, why would I not think she should get half?

Its a long story,it was my sister`s house,there was no children,he did not contribute,and my sister always said she wanted to leave the house to my grandchildren.As there was no will he inherited the property,but did not deserve it.

The point I was making is the necessity of making a will or a legal document.

[singlecoil]

garyhun said:

singlecoil said:

And it will all become irrelevant as soon the pregnancy test shows positive

Ooh, you cynic

Call me cynical (I've been called worse than that, today even ) but it does say girlfriend in the title, and as she is moving in with him I take that to mean what it normally means, and presumably she likes him, wants to be with him, and will be subject to all the usual family and society pressures to start having children.

[anonymous-user]

singlecoil said:

garyhun said:

singlecoil said:

And it will all become irrelevant as soon the pregnancy test shows positive

Ooh, you cynic

Call me cynical (I've been called worse than that, today even ) but it does say girlfriend in the title, and as she is moving in with him I take that to mean what it normally means, and presumably she likes him, wants to be with him, and will be subject to all the usual family and society pressures to start having children.

Trust me, calling you that was a compliment

[Mark-C]

The Mad Monk said:

Why not keep both properties? See each other 2/3 times a week, weekends, perhaps as well. She stays at your place from time to time and you stay at her place from time to time as well.

Nobody moves in, that way you keep the excitement going and nobody can have a claim on the others property.

Worth a thought OP ... this arrangement works really well for me and my long term GF ...

[Pit Pony]

Old Merc said:

My sister bought a property with her own money and lived alone for a few years.Her boyfriend who had no property or capital (he was a bit of a waster) moved in and did not pay anything,they eventually married.
A few years later my sister died in tragic circumstances.As there was no will my sister`s house was his.
He sold it and pissed off.I got loads of advice but there was nothing I could do.

That's THAT CONTRACT they call marriage. She might have married for love, and if she'd written a will, you'd be in the same circumstances.

Don't worry, though, my sister is 50, single, and owns a decent house. She has made a will. She has not put any of her nephews or nieces, (of which she has 4) or great nephews (of which she has 1, but likely to have more) or brother or sisters (of which she has 2) or parents (2 of them)in that will, but has decided that it should go to charity. She refuses to say which, but I suspect it's the local church, rather than something like erm the salvation army hostel for the homeless ( which I could understand)

Of course my will doesn't include her, but then I have a wife and 2 kids, so it's unlikely to.