Racism ?

[Terminator X]

crossy67 said:

Muslim is a religion not a race.

Indeed, yet another instance of the World gone / going mad. Religeonist OAP though for what it's worth, send him to the gallows!

TX.

[Retroman]

Mr2Mike said:

Clearly you have a wonderful insight into the mind of radical muslims.

Thank you

Mr2Mike said:

All this time I was under the misapprehension that the suicide bombings and hijacked planes flown into buildings were performed to express their hatred against Western cultures and values. Apparently it was just bunch of bored teenagers with too much time and high explosives on their hands.

This is a Strawman fallacy.

Mr2Mike said:

Oh they owned the Poppies? Why didn't you say so before, that makes it absolutely fine. I mean there was obviously no symbolism involved, perhaps they were simply feeling a bit cold and lit a small fire with whatever was to hand?

Yawn. Sarcasm really is the lowest form of wit.
Why not reply with a response addressing the argument directly?

Mr2Mike said:

FWIW your mosque example is flawed. I would have to own the bacon which I would use to desecrate the symbol of a religion, just as the Poppy burners owned the Poppies they used to try and desecrate the Armistice ceremony.

Is it really so difficult for you to understand?
Well here's how it works.
Someone buys a poppy. The poppy then belongs to them.
Are they allowed to destroy or deface their own property regardless of what it represents?
If no, why not?

Your analogy isn't comparable because with the poppy burning because it's burning their own property. (they own the poppy)
With the example you're using it's defacing someone elses property. (you don't own the mosque)

[WinstonWolf]

It doesn't matter who owns the poppy, burning one under ANY circumstances is disrespectful and anti-British.

[Retroman]

WinstonWolf said:

It doesn't matter who owns the poppy, burning one under ANY circumstances is disrespectful and anti-British.

Disrespectful yes.
Anti British - No
You don't need to respect or support the military to be British.

Edit: No one is disputing it's disrespectful btw.

[9mm]

You reap what you sow. Not sure it's advisable for a minority to incur the hostility of the majority. History teaches us it doesn't tend to end well.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Terminator X said:

Indeed, yet another instance of the World gone / going mad. Religeonist OAP though for what it's worth, send him to the gallows!

TX.

Muslim is a religion, not a race, you're quite right. They are both covered by the same legislation though, so in regards to this discussion, that is kind of irrelevant.

[tony wright]

Still trying to come to terms with the punishment.

Let's say, same young white girl has an argument with a black girl in a pub, she then decides to cover the door handles of her house in dog crap. Obviously the other young lady is highly offended and very angry over this but, 12 month jail sentence, I think not, so what's the difference other than it's easier to remove the bacon. Both crimes could be seen as racist, yet one would result in the girl getting a good bollicking and the other a jail sentence...

[Retroman]

tony wright said:

Still trying to come to terms with the punishment.

Let's say, same young white girl has an argument with a black girl in a pub, she then decides to cover the door handles of her house in dog crap. Obviously the other young lady is highly offended and very angry over this but, 12 month jail sentence, I think not, so what's the difference other than it's easier to remove the bacon. Both crimes could be seen as racist, yet one would result in the girl getting a good bollicking and the other a jail sentence??

The sentence was so harsh because it was found out she has links to the SDL and despite video evidence of her being there, she pleaded not guilty.

No one likes dog st on their door handle so that's not the best example. A better example would be someone on the black person's door that would be directly offensive towards them due to their race.

Both crimes can't be seen as racist as there is no such race as Islam.

[nickfrog]

I can't believe that a grown up can not comprehend the definition of racism from a legal perspective. It really is simple but it would seem there is a correlation between lack of education and xenophobia. Surprise surprise.

[Retroman]

nickfrog said:

I can't believe that a grown up can not comprehend the definition of racism from a legal perspective. It really is simple but it would seem there is a correlation between lack of education and xenophobia. Surprise surprise.

I know a few Caucasian British Muslims myself who converted to Islam later in life.
If someone puts bacon on their door handles and they are a Caucasian Atheist is that a racist crime?

[Mr2Mike]

Retroman said:

Mr2Mike said:

Clearly you have a wonderful insight into the mind of radical muslims.

Thank you

Mr2Mike said:

All this time I was under the misapprehension that the suicide bombings and hijacked planes flown into buildings were performed to express their hatred against Western cultures and values. Apparently it was just bunch of bored teenagers with too much time and high explosives on their hands.

This is a Strawman fallacy.

Mr2Mike said:

Oh they owned the Poppies? Why didn't you say so before, that makes it absolutely fine. I mean there was obviously no symbolism involved, perhaps they were simply feeling a bit cold and lit a small fire with whatever was to hand?

Yawn. Sarcasm really is the lowest form of wit.
Why not reply with a response addressing the argument directly?

I was addressing the argument you made that it was done "for the lolz".

Retroman said:

Mr2Mike said:

FWIW your mosque example is flawed. I would have to own the bacon which I would use to desecrate the symbol of a religion, just as the Poppy burners owned the Poppies they used to try and desecrate the Armistice ceremony.

Is it really so difficult for you to understand?
Well here's how it works.
Someone buys a poppy. The poppy then belongs to them.
Are they allowed to destroy or deface their own property regardless of what it represents?
If no, why not?

Your analogy isn't comparable because with the poppy burning because it's burning their own property. (they own the poppy)
With the example you're using it's defacing someone elses property. (you don't own the mosque)

I would be defacing my bit of bacon by allowing it to come into contact with a mosque. The mosque would be undamaged and could still be used for radicalising muslims, but I wouldn't want to eat the bacon afterwards.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 6th November 12:42

[Devil2575]

nickfrog said:

I used to be annoyed by the "PC-brigade".

Now I actually get far more annoyed by the "anti-PC brigade", which seems to attract the worst of the UKIP style, reactionary, bitter, petit-bourgeois and uneducated morons around.

In my experience the people who complain most about "Political correctness gone mad" are the people who are actually annoyed that they can't use words like N****r and P**i anymore without it being objected too.

[Devil2575]

9mm said:

You reap what you sow. Not sure it's advisable for a minority to incur the hostility of the majority. History teaches us it doesn't tend to end well.

Does it?

History has taught us that minorities can and do suffer at the hands of the majority, but I can't think of many examples where the minority in question has done anything in particular to incur that hostility.

What example were you thinking of?

[EU_Foreigner]

Minority Muslim terrorists I assume?

[Terminator X]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Terminator X said:

Indeed, yet another instance of the World gone / going mad. Religeonist OAP though for what it's worth, send him to the gallows!

TX.

Muslim is a religion, not a race, you're quite right. They are both covered by the same legislation though, so in regards to this discussion, that is kind of irrelevant.

Eh, racism includes religion? Can you point me towards where is states that?

Cheers, TX.

[Devil2575]

EU_Foreigner said:

Minority Muslim terrorists I assume?

I was asking for the example from history that has taught us, not the current situation under discussion.

[WinstonWolf]

Devil2575 said:

EU_Foreigner said:

Minority Muslim terrorists I assume?

I was asking for the example from history that has taught us, not the current situation under discussion.

The IRA?

[T0nup]

So the pensioner got arrested and charged for stating a fact?

So security guards aren't as thick skinned as they once were then, obviously.

Oh, and heaven forbid you should tell anything like it really is, cos you'll upset someone and wind up in court. How I hate politically correct crap.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Terminator X said:

Eh, racism includes religion? Can you point me towards where is states that?

Cheers, TX.

If you read carefully what I wrote, youll see that I said they are not the same but are covered by the same legislation. So I'll point you to the Public Order Act 1986, specifically to S17-29 and 29A-29N.

[Terminator X]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Terminator X said:

Eh, racism includes religion? Can you point me towards where is states that?

Cheers, TX.

If you read carefully what I wrote, youll see that I said they are not the same but are covered by the same legislation. So I'll point you to the Public Order Act 1986, specifically to S17-29 and 29A-29N.

Ok, so this is what the Public Order Act 1986 says:

"Meaning of “racial hatred”.
In this Part “racial hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins."

Then the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 adds a new section eg 29A:

"Meaning of “religious hatred”
In this Part “religious hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief."

Two different things then surely eg don't confuse “racial hatred” [racism] with “religious hatred” [religiounism?]? As an aside I'm staggered there is such a thing as religious hatred, why pick out religion ... off topic why are the Islamist nutters not arrested under this Act for their Behead Them placards?!

TX.