Letting other drivers know of approaching Scamera vans
Discussion
skahigh said:
If I saw a speed camera van in my local area (as I did recently) and decided to stand a little way up the road with a warning sign would that be an offence?
If so, what if I made the sign ambiguous. i.e. "Speed camera may be ahead"?
Just print one of theseIf so, what if I made the sign ambiguous. i.e. "Speed camera may be ahead"?
Surely it can't be an offence to display a sign like this considering they are used by councils all over the country for preciously the purpose of warning drivers that speed cameras may be in operation ahead.
defblade said:
As I am regularly overtaken in 30 limits because I am daring to stick to 30, I've given up flashing for speed traps in 30s. Let the idiots take their lumps.
To be honest if you're regularly being overtaken I suspect you're doing 25mph with an overly optimistic speedo. Either that or you're a member of the speed limit appreciation club and jam on brakes to 29.9 exactly at the sign and won't accelerate until exactly the NSL sign. If you start showing a little judgement instead of programmed behaviour (IMO the definition of idiotic) you'll find you're less irritating to others and you'll stop being safely overtaken in 30s.defblade said:
As I am regularly overtaken in 30 limits because I am daring to stick to 30, I've given up flashing for speed traps in 30s. Let the idiots take their lumps.
To be honest if you're regularly being overtaken I suspect you're doing 25mph with an overly optimistic speedo. Either that or you're a member of the speed limit appreciation club and jam on brakes to 29.9 exactly at the sign and won't accelerate until exactly the NSL sign. If you start showing a little judgement instead of programmed behaviour (IMO the definition of idiotic) you'll find you're less irritating to others and you'll stop being safely overtaken in 30s.defblade said:
As I am regularly overtaken in 30 limits because I am daring to stick to 30, I've given up flashing for speed traps in 30s. Let the idiots take their lumps.
I generally stick to 30 zones especially in areas I am unfamiliar with.I have never been overtaken in a 30 zone, sticking to the limit or otherwise.
Where is this area of regular 30 zone overtakers?
Are you actually doing 30 or 25?
supermono said:
Cameras only collect their cash at dangerous bits of road. It seems to me letting someone who appears to be speeding know that the dead straight open bit of road they're about to drive on is actually a hugely dangerous accident blackspot with a flash of the headlights is a good idea. The camera parasites would rather have no income than have an avoidable accident happen surely?
The idea is avoiding the 'dangerous behaviour' in such a manner doesn't provide a sustained change of behaviour, whereas the punitive measures that would have otherwise be forthcoming would. Moonhawk said:
Just print one of these
Surely it can't be an offence to display a sign like this considering they are used by councils all over the country for preciously the purpose of warning drivers that speed cameras may be in operation ahead.
People would likely ignore these though because they are used all over the country.Surely it can't be an offence to display a sign like this considering they are used by councils all over the country for preciously the purpose of warning drivers that speed cameras may be in operation ahead.
I wonder if the posters who agree with prosecuting MOPs for warning others of speed camera vans also think you should be fined if you notice a traffic warden coming round the corner and go and warn a car parked on DYLs? 
its exactly the same principle. The traffic wardens 'job' is completed but without the usual financial income.
its exactly the same principle. The traffic wardens 'job' is completed but without the usual financial income.Durzel said:
I haven't the heart not to flash people coming the other way to warn them of a mobile speed trap, after I've been warned numerous occasions myself in the past. I'm community spirited like that though.
+1.If I didn't need to work to fund my lifestyle (say I won the lottery or something), I'm sure I'd spend at least some of my time carrying-out activities against the whole "Speed Kills" mantra and the associated dumbing-down of our roads. TBH, I think of the camera operators in the same way as burglars and muggers. - Lowlife scum, basically.
When I was younger, I actually wanted to be a Police Officer for the usual naive reasons - to make a difference, help people etc. However, I quickly realised that increasingly they're part of the problem in many cases, blindly believing and enforcing what they're told to - often to the detriment of the greater good. The whole "We're out to get you" image of speed enforcement only harms the public perception of the Police...especially when they seem more interested in speed enforcement than genuine crimes as it's an easy life for them.
La Liga said:
he idea is avoiding the 'dangerous behaviour' in such a manner doesn't provide a sustained change of behaviour, whereas the punitive measures that would have otherwise be forthcoming would.
If this is the case - then surely the use of speed camera warning signs (like the one I posted above) and painting speed cameras yellow should be discouraged.If the punitive measure is the one that has the most effect in changing driver behaviour - then surely all speed cameras should be covert.
vonhosen said:
deeen said:
vonhosen said:
Each case will depend on it's merits.
It's an offence where a constable is obstructed in his duty. The courts have held that for that to be the case, that prior evidence of speeding must have been gained & the obstruction takes place after that.
The courts are happy that they can tell the difference between somebody warning another about their behaviour & somebody warning another with a view to obstruct the required evidence of their offending being obtained.
Oddly you don't see a lot of drivers being warned by other drivers away from speed enforcement areas.
Try your best to convince me it's not about evading getting caught.
I thought most scamera vans were not manned by real constables.It's an offence where a constable is obstructed in his duty. The courts have held that for that to be the case, that prior evidence of speeding must have been gained & the obstruction takes place after that.
The courts are happy that they can tell the difference between somebody warning another about their behaviour & somebody warning another with a view to obstruct the required evidence of their offending being obtained.
Oddly you don't see a lot of drivers being warned by other drivers away from speed enforcement areas.
Try your best to convince me it's not about evading getting caught.
I warned other drivers about horses on the road today, maybe you are being a bit paranoid about drivers trying to help each other out with generic "hazard" warnings. Or maybe if you are sitting in a scamera van, those would be the only hazard warnings you would see?
And for your last sentence, in general, I think it's best if drivers do help each other avoid being taxed by these ridiculous, irrational, illogical money grabbing schemes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3340963/Motor...
For case law.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/233...
This topic has been done to death many times.
solidlad84 said:
I wonder if the posters who agree with prosecuting MOPs for warning others of speed camera vans also think you should be fined if you notice a traffic warden coming round the corner and go and warn a car parked on DYLs? its exactly the same principle. The traffic wardens 'job' is completed but without the usual financial income.
ISWYM but anybody thinking that way is deluded because it's simply not possible. In areas where parking offences have been decriminalised under the TMA 2004 (the vast majority in E&W) the analogy is flawed. Also, the correct terminology is important. Due to DPE/CPE there are very few traffic wardens left in the UK. They have been replaced with CEOs (Civil Enforcement Officers). They do not have the powers afforded to a constable. its exactly the same principle. The traffic wardens 'job' is completed but without the usual financial income.There are still areas where DPE has yet to be taken up under the TMA 2004.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/system/files/d...
For example the county of East Sussex is a CEO free zone except for Lewes and Eastbourne
http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/roadsandtransport/par...
(n.b. Brighton & Hove and Hastings have their own Councils which DO have DPE/CPE)
g3org3y said:
defblade said:
As I am regularly overtaken in 30 limits because I am daring to stick to 30, I've given up flashing for speed traps in 30s. Let the idiots take their lumps.
I generally stick to 30 zones especially in areas I am unfamiliar with.I have never been overtaken in a 30 zone, sticking to the limit or otherwise.
Where is this area of regular 30 zone overtakers?
Are you actually doing 30 or 25?
Some people are muppets, their licence, let them get on with it.
It actually happened last night, by a small motorcycle on "L" plates, and he crossed double whites to do so.
Moonhawk said:
If this is the case - then surely the use of speed camera warning signs (like the one I posted above) and painting speed cameras yellow should be discouraged.
If the punitive measure is the one that has the most effect in changing driver behaviour - then surely all speed cameras should be covert.
Signs provide a nudge that there may be cameras in the area, they aren't specifically stopping someone who is about to get caught when they are doing excess speed. If the punitive measure is the one that has the most effect in changing driver behaviour - then surely all speed cameras should be covert.
Perhaps there would be a greater net effect if those things were implemented, but there has to be balance.
supermono said:
To be honest if you're regularly being overtaken I suspect you're doing 25mph with an overly optimistic speedo. Either that or you're a member of the speed limit appreciation club and jam on brakes to 29.9 exactly at the sign and won't accelerate until exactly the NSL sign. If you start showing a little judgement instead of programmed behaviour (IMO the definition of idiotic) you'll find you're less irritating to others and you'll stop being safely overtaken in 30s.
Sticking to the 30 isn't programmed behaviour it's a perfectly rational tactic to avoid getting fined or banned. Slow down to 30 after the sign or accelerate before the NSL and you're sunk. I'm regularly overtakn in 30 areas, often through junctions. If one of these clowns has an accident through overtaking through a junction, the fact that he was a bit over the limit being irrelevant, will there be a clampdown on lunatic overtakes? No, there will be yet more coppers pointing their lasers and a further reduction in the speed limit.
Clivey said:
delboy735 said:
Not just me then.As motorists, we are by far the easiest "criminals" to trace as well......what a coincidence
As motorists, we're the easiest way for the authorities to rake in revenue, be it increasing RFL, camera fines (scrutinise people and sooner or later you'll find something to pick fault with) or yet another tax.Isn't it funny that the answer to climate change, road safety or whatever today's "threat" is seems to be "give money to the Government"?
Fuel tax has been static for years now. Camera fines are entirely optional.
RFL on most modern euroboxes is peanuts.
oyster said:
Really?
Fuel tax has been static for years now
And subject to VAT. Taxing a tax. Nice. Fuel tax has been static for years now
oyster said:
Camera fines are entirely optional.
Scrutinise someone enough and you'll get them eventually.oyster said:
RFL on most modern euroboxes is peanuts.
But not on anything that isn't an ecobox. The crazy thing is that you can buy a large 4x4 and pay c£500 even if you do <1,000 miles PA, yet someone else can buy a zero tax car and do 50,000+ miles PA if they want without charge. Who's the one doing more "damage" to the environment, the roads etc.?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff