Wifi theft

Author
Discussion

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Sunday 16th November 2014
quotequote all
If your neighbour is tech savvy enough then enable MAC filtering on the router.
It means that only pre-approved devices can access the WiFi.

So unless someone has put the MAC address of the device into the router they won't be able to connect to it even if they have the correct WiFi password.

Terminator X

14,921 posts

203 months

Sunday 16th November 2014
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
His children are 1 and 3.

His password was changed from the default but it was just his name so easy enough to guess.
Fpmsl he changes from default difficult password to one piss easy to guess!

TX.

PeetBee

1,036 posts

254 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Fpmsl he changes from default difficult password to one piss easy to guess!

TX.
And has the admin password been changed or is that still the default?

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
PeetBee said:
And has the admin password been changed or is that still the default?
Better yet, disable admin access on all wireless (and WAN) connections. (Assuming PC is connected wired...)

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
someone has been streaming data in the early hours of the morning although they refused to tell him what it was.

He has been told he is liable and as such is going to pay.
surely if he is liable, he is entitled to know what has been streamed using his wifi? IANAL but that doesn't seem right to me.

it's like people who phone the house number then don't want to tell me who they are working for as I'm not the person who the call is for. My house, my phone line, I think I can expect to find out the name of the company using it, how is that breaking the DPA that they try and hide behind?

If they expect him to pay they should give him the details.

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
jesta1865 said:
surely if he is liable, he is entitled to know what has been streamed using his wifi? IANAL but that doesn't seem right to me.

it's like people who phone the house number then don't want to tell me who they are working for as I'm not the person who the call is for. My house, my phone line, I think I can expect to find out the name of the company using it, how is that breaking the DPA that they try and hide behind?

If they expect him to pay they should give him the details.
As per my post, it's not always possible to see exactly what people are doing with their connection.
Most ISPs will only be able to view how much data was used in a period but aren't able to break it down to what specifically was used (e.g 1GB on Youtube, 200mb on emails)

They will have a counter showing the OPs neighbour has over used and that's all they need.


jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
Retroman said:
jesta1865 said:
surely if he is liable, he is entitled to know what has been streamed using his wifi? IANAL but that doesn't seem right to me.

it's like people who phone the house number then don't want to tell me who they are working for as I'm not the person who the call is for. My house, my phone line, I think I can expect to find out the name of the company using it, how is that breaking the DPA that they try and hide behind?

If they expect him to pay they should give him the details.
As per my post, it's not always possible to see exactly what people are doing with their connection.
Most ISPs will only be able to view how much data was used in a period but aren't able to break it down to what specifically was used (e.g 1GB on Youtube, 200mb on emails)

They will have a counter showing the OPs neighbour has over used and that's all they need.
i understand that, although I'm at a loss as to why, when I can see what people have been doing through my firewalls etc, it was the fact that he used the word refused, as opposed to can't as we don't monitor it.

plus, the isp's are now being asked to scan for illegal activity, yes it's a pain and it will slow stuff down a bit, but it's possible.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
jesta1865 said:
i understand that, although I'm at a loss as to why, when I can see what people have been doing through my firewalls etc, it was the fact that he used the word refused, as opposed to can't as we don't monitor it.
It's because of IP masquerading and Network Address Translation (NAT). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_trans...

Your internal network (including any wireless devices) appears as a single 'IP address' to the outside world. Your router is responsible for keeping track of which internal IP address incoming messages have to be sent to, but the outside world (and your ISP) won't be able to determine any of that.


tagy

23 posts

178 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
If you have an older router you might want to check WPS is disabled. On some routers this is easy to exploit.

Hiding the network, changing password, and mac address filtering won't do much against that exploit.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Monday 17th November 2014
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
jesta1865 said:
i understand that, although I'm at a loss as to why, when I can see what people have been doing through my firewalls etc, it was the fact that he used the word refused, as opposed to can't as we don't monitor it.
It's because of IP masquerading and Network Address Translation (NAT). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_trans...

Your internal network (including any wireless devices) appears as a single 'IP address' to the outside world. Your router is responsible for keeping track of which internal IP address incoming messages have to be sent to, but the outside world (and your ISP) won't be able to determine any of that.
Hence the reason why all torrent using folk are not instantly barred from using broadband, you can't tell what they are down loading unless its a tracked torrent.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Du1point8 said:
Hence the reason why all torrent using folk are not instantly barred from using broadband, you can't tell what they are down loading unless its a tracked torrent.
Not at all. Your ISP can still see which sites you're sending/receiving data from, and - usually - the type of service being accessed (web pages, email, ftp, torrent).

Use of torrents isn't banned because they're not inherently illegal. It would be like blocking the whole web because some pages contain hooky content.

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
jesta1865 said:
i understand that, although I'm at a loss as to why, when I can see what people have been doing through my firewalls etc, it was the fact that he used the word refused, as opposed to can't as we don't monitor it.
It's because of IP masquerading and Network Address Translation (NAT). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_trans...

Your internal network (including any wireless devices) appears as a single 'IP address' to the outside world. Your router is responsible for keeping track of which internal IP address incoming messages have to be sent to, but the outside world (and your ISP) won't be able to determine any of that.
i know that but as you mention in another post, i can track the sites people are on, and so can the isp's as you point out.

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
Du1point8 said:
Hence the reason why all torrent using folk are not instantly barred from using broadband, you can't tell what they are down loading unless its a tracked torrent.
Not at all. Your ISP can still see which sites you're sending/receiving data from, and - usually - the type of service being accessed (web pages, email, ftp, torrent).

Use of torrents isn't banned because they're not inherently illegal. It would be like blocking the whole web because some pages contain hooky content.
this was my point, although you seem to have explained it better than i did, perhaps that caused the confusion.

also my initial point was that we were told by the OP that they refused to tell him not that they couldn't tell him.

if they expect him to pay, he can reasonably expect the proof that the data was transmitted and who to.

i wasn't talking about a home router but the way.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Personally I like to turn off everything that's not in use. I don't think we can currently afford to waste electricity. I know people say ISP equipment may slow down the data but whether they do or not it hasn't affected me.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
jesta1865 said:
we were told by the OP that they refused to tell him not that they couldn't tell him.
You're reading too much into one word. A refusal just means saying "no". As I keep sayng, the primary reason for the refusal is that the ISP won't have the dat in the first place. ISP knows nothing about wifi, or the computers connected downstream of the router. They just see traffic between router and ISP, but have no way of telling where the data gets sent once it reaches the home router.

Randomthoughts

917 posts

132 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Rather concerning is that someone has access to (I'm guessing from the language used) business/enterprise firewall devices, but doesn't understand why the ISP won't be able to determine what device on a NATed network was using data.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
Du1point8 said:
Hence the reason why all torrent using folk are not instantly barred from using broadband, you can't tell what they are down loading unless its a tracked torrent.
Not at all. Your ISP can still see which sites you're sending/receiving data from, and - usually - the type of service being accessed (web pages, email, ftp, torrent).

Use of torrents isn't banned because they're not inherently illegal. It would be like blocking the whole web because some pages contain hooky content.
And torrenting technology is a way that some games and software is legally distributed as it reduces infrastructure needed for large scale hosting and fits certain use cases.

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
jesta1865 said:
we were told by the OP that they refused to tell him not that they couldn't tell him.
You're reading too much into one word. A refusal just means saying "no". As I keep sayng, the primary reason for the refusal is that the ISP won't have the dat in the first place. ISP knows nothing about wifi, or the computers connected downstream of the router. They just see traffic between router and ISP, but have no way of telling where the data gets sent once it reaches the home router.
yes i guessed as much, but we haven't been updated.

Mr Will

13,719 posts

205 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Vaud said:
And torrenting technology is a way that some games and software is legally distributed as it reduces infrastructure needed for large scale hosting and fits certain use cases.
I believe it was also essentially what powered iPlayer at one point - any time you were watching something you were also uploading the earlier parts to the next batch of viewers, greatly reducing the demand upon the BBC servers.

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Randomthoughts said:
Rather concerning is that someone has access to (I'm guessing from the language used) business/enterprise firewall devices, but doesn't understand why the ISP won't be able to determine what device on a NATed network was using data.
i didn't say they could tell him which device, i said they should be able to tell him what has been accessed by his account, yet they tell him they can't or won't.

i don't think at any time i have said that they could tell him who's downloaded / accessed what, i have re-read my posts in case i did by accident.

plus, as they are my firewalls, and internal to the link to our isp I could see what each account is accessing, my set-up at work will be different to the isp's.

Edited by jesta1865 on Tuesday 18th November 16:11