Discussion
jesta1865 said:
if they expect him to pay, he can reasonably expect the proof that the data was transmitted and who to.
Not at all. I doubt there is any contractual obligation for the ISP to break down the usage. You've bought a pipe and (in the case being discussed) a certain amount of data that is allowed to go down at an inclusive cost. So what obligation is the ISP under to analyse the data for you?I can also tell you why they won't do it, even if they felt inclined to. Pretty much everyone who looks at the data usage says, no way did I use that much data, ISP you are at fault, tell me what it is. They'd spend all their time in analysing, then debates, then arguments.
As one example, at work, we all connect our phones, tablets etc to the office wifi(s). We clogged up the internet pipe. Looking at the devices they were consume huge amounts of data (one iphone gobbled up 40 gig in a couple of days - without the iphone owner even doing much).
So I suspect the OP's neighbour was not hacked, but there's a device updating or similar. The ISP is under no obligation to help analyse it and from my experience, my advice would be to get an unlimited connection!
Bert
BertBert said:
Not at all. I doubt there is any contractual obligation for the ISP to break down the usage. You've bought a pipe and (in the case being discussed) a certain amount of data that is allowed to go down at an inclusive cost.
This ^^^. And it would be like asking the water company to tell you who's drunk all the water they're billing you for. silentbrown said:
This ^^^. And it would be like asking the water company to tell you who's drunk all the water they're billing you for.
Ahh, a rare opportunity to quote or mis-quote HHGTTG..."You'd better be prepared for the jump into hyperspace. It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
"You ask a glass of water."
contractor said:
or like doing some dodgy outdoor hosepipe plumbing and water leaking while on holiday and expecting not to have to pay the water-meter bill
An ex neighbour of mine had this issue. The water company used his average previous invoices and reduced the bill.To bring this back (ish) - Unlimited water packages, without a meter, were available
_dobbo_ said:
Apologies if this has already been asked - but was the router provided by the ISP?
If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
Maybe ISP's should go back to just providing the connection and leave the buying equipment to the customer's instead.If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
Almost every router can be hacked, if not every one. It just depends how keen someone is to access it.
Retroman said:
I've worked for a few ISP's myself and every time someone has reported they never used x amount of data, on investigation they always had.
I know the bloke reasonably well and he's not the kind of person to try and get out of paying what he owes.What concerned me a little about the story was that his wife (and mine for that matter) seemed to have jumped to the conclusion that it must be the new neighbours "Who are obviously dodgy" when I suspected that there was no way they could easily determine this to be the case.
Retroman said:
jesta1865 said:
surely if he is liable, he is entitled to know what has been streamed using his wifi? IANAL but that doesn't seem right to me.
it's like people who phone the house number then don't want to tell me who they are working for as I'm not the person who the call is for. My house, my phone line, I think I can expect to find out the name of the company using it, how is that breaking the DPA that they try and hide behind?
If they expect him to pay they should give him the details.
As per my post, it's not always possible to see exactly what people are doing with their connection.it's like people who phone the house number then don't want to tell me who they are working for as I'm not the person who the call is for. My house, my phone line, I think I can expect to find out the name of the company using it, how is that breaking the DPA that they try and hide behind?
If they expect him to pay they should give him the details.
Most ISPs will only be able to view how much data was used in a period but aren't able to break it down to what specifically was used (e.g 1GB on Youtube, 200mb on emails)
They will have a counter showing the OPs neighbour has over used and that's all they need.
I always thought they did.
_dobbo_ said:
Apologies if this has already been asked - but was the router provided by the ISP?
If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
I sincerely doubt it had been comprised. Also the last time I installed one the security instructions were quite clear. I think the isps might have thought this one through.If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
Bert
Devil2575 said:
Don't ISPs store data on what you are looking at on the internet?
I always thought they did.
Not to my knowledge.I always thought they did.
If they check a customer's connection live, they can see what they're accessing but they can't do it historically as far as i know.
Even then, it's usually only the tier 3 support who can check the connection live.
Cracking wifi passwords are incredibly easy. Couple of hours effort at the most with a decent dictionary, and/or powerful computer.
It may not be the nearby neighbors, a decent directional antenna can get a good 1/4-1/2 mile distance depending on geographical terrain and line of sight.
Increase the length of the password to over 16 characters, use a passphrase to make it bigger, disable WPS mode - yes, it is annoying to enter, but you will only enter it once per device.
It may not be the nearby neighbors, a decent directional antenna can get a good 1/4-1/2 mile distance depending on geographical terrain and line of sight.
Increase the length of the password to over 16 characters, use a passphrase to make it bigger, disable WPS mode - yes, it is annoying to enter, but you will only enter it once per device.
Just thought i'd update this topic.
I was out drinking with my Neighbour and Saturday night so got the story first hand and how it was resolved.
He suspected his new neighbours because the additional data usage started the day after they moved in and stopped the same day they had a broadband connection installed. By additional I mean data usage that was happening late in the evening/early hours after he had gone to bed. His use of the internet is limited and he isn't connected to the cloud or have apps that update.
Anyway he simply went round and had a chat with the lady next door and suggested that she might want to talk to her son. A few days later the son came round with £40 and an appology, apparently thankful that he had been dealt with so reasonably as where he used to live he would have been thumped.
So, all it took was a few words. Who knew life was so simple
I was out drinking with my Neighbour and Saturday night so got the story first hand and how it was resolved.
He suspected his new neighbours because the additional data usage started the day after they moved in and stopped the same day they had a broadband connection installed. By additional I mean data usage that was happening late in the evening/early hours after he had gone to bed. His use of the internet is limited and he isn't connected to the cloud or have apps that update.
Anyway he simply went round and had a chat with the lady next door and suggested that she might want to talk to her son. A few days later the son came round with £40 and an appology, apparently thankful that he had been dealt with so reasonably as where he used to live he would have been thumped.
So, all it took was a few words. Who knew life was so simple
BertBert said:
_dobbo_ said:
Apologies if this has already been asked - but was the router provided by the ISP?
If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
I sincerely doubt it had been comprised. Also the last time I installed one the security instructions were quite clear. I think the isps might have thought this one through.If it was, and it's been compromised, I fail to see how the customer can be liable for this, or expected to modify those settings in the absence of explicit insruction from the ISP to do so?
Bert
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