Unusable garage in rented property
Discussion
Thanks BV, been a bit busy with work this week so not got back to this thread, managed to call the agent again yesterday and list all the problems driving home from up north
Finally got a response from our guy today, turned out he'd been attacked by a dog and spent a spell in hospital, so can't really blame him
Within a few hours I'd sent him photos describing the issues, he'd contacted the landlord and we' got an apology for the condition of the apartment and inventory items
The situation with the garage is ongoing, but it seems to be drying out now, I've made it clear that I think the gully needs jetting, and if it floods again I'll be insisting - tbh they claim to have cleared it before they left, so if it's flooding within a few days/weeks I doubt it really is
Still not completely happy, the garage is filthy with the dirt that's been washed in, but if I can get it dry and prevent further flooding at least stuff isn't going to get damaged, and I can dump the stuff that's in there (not that I should have to...)
Let's see what happens now...
Finally got a response from our guy today, turned out he'd been attacked by a dog and spent a spell in hospital, so can't really blame him
Within a few hours I'd sent him photos describing the issues, he'd contacted the landlord and we' got an apology for the condition of the apartment and inventory items
The situation with the garage is ongoing, but it seems to be drying out now, I've made it clear that I think the gully needs jetting, and if it floods again I'll be insisting - tbh they claim to have cleared it before they left, so if it's flooding within a few days/weeks I doubt it really is
Still not completely happy, the garage is filthy with the dirt that's been washed in, but if I can get it dry and prevent further flooding at least stuff isn't going to get damaged, and I can dump the stuff that's in there (not that I should have to...)
Let's see what happens now...
Some photos:
The garage ones were taken yesterday, late afternoon, five days after we moved in and initially discovered the flooding
The "professionally cleaned" kitchen:
And oven:
Every cupboard and drawer was like this:
Only the washing machine, cycle racks and tool chest are ours:
Condensation:
And dripping from the ceiling:
The garage ones were taken yesterday, late afternoon, five days after we moved in and initially discovered the flooding
The "professionally cleaned" kitchen:
And oven:
Every cupboard and drawer was like this:
Only the washing machine, cycle racks and tool chest are ours:
Condensation:
And dripping from the ceiling:
Did you not have a good look around the entire property to sign off any damage etc prior to signing the lease, so you don't get shafted for your bond? I thought photos of everything signed by both parties were the norm now?
Also, if I was going to store, tools, a motorbike and 40k of other items in the garage I'd have been all over it like a tramp on chips before even looking at the habitable area.
Also, if I was going to store, tools, a motorbike and 40k of other items in the garage I'd have been all over it like a tramp on chips before even looking at the habitable area.
That garage even if perfectly drained will be too damp to keep tools in. Sectional concrete walls admit more water than brick, and the roof is concrete asbestos. My garage was so roofed and leaked so I changed the roof to a more normal flat felted roof.
Not a five minute job to change as I needed building approval to do it. Because I needed to add a steel I beam (I didn't trust the ropey concrete one) the legal fees exceeded the cost of doing the job.
Not a five minute job to change as I needed building approval to do it. Because I needed to add a steel I beam (I didn't trust the ropey concrete one) the legal fees exceeded the cost of doing the job.
Edited by Slidingpillar on Wednesday 3rd December 09:15
Slidingpillar said:
That garage even if perfectly drained will be too damp to keep tools in. Sectional concrete walls admit more water than brick, and the roof is concrete asbestos. My garage was so roofed and leaked so I changed the roof to a more normal flat felted roof.
This I am discovering now...As a temporary measure I attacked the joints with expanding foam, it's helped but its still dripping wet, though more damp now than flooded, everything is under HD plastic sheeting to at least keep the drips off
The neighbouring garage owner has borrowed a pressure washer and blasted the moss off his roof and cleared the drainage channels, I've not had a moment to think about this since I last updated really, but I may end up doing similar if that seems to help the problem. The drainage channel outside backs up every time it rains but has so far not flooded again, although that's a matter of when rather than if
The contents of our old garage have gone into a nearby self storage place, at a very reasonable cost of £170 for three months, I don't hold out much hope of the building management company or the agency actually doing anything until the reality of the threat of rent abatement hits home...
Is the roof actually leaking or is it just condensation from the flooding? The slab will be soaked after the flooding so the drips may be just condensation. In this case when you sort out the drainage the damp problem will go away. You can speed this up with lots of ventilation, e.g. leaving the door open as much as possible. Why not find out what the drainage problem is and sort it out?
herewego said:
Why not find out what the drainage problem is and sort it out?
I know what the problem is, the gully and pipe is blocked through years of neglect, it needs properly jettingThe issue is that it's a rented property, I could, following the correct procedure, have it done and deduct the cost from the rent, but it's a slow process.
You're right about the condensation though, it was particularly cold this morning and up until now it did appear to be improved!!
Now that our old place is done and sorted and work isn't quite so hectic I'm going to start pushing harder as we've not had much beyond "I'll call the management company again" from the agent so far. There is a clause in our contract about reducing rent due to uninhabitability, so I'll also be speaking to the agent about that too
the_lone_wolf said:
I know what the problem is, the gully and pipe is blocked through years of neglect, it needs properly jetting
The issue is that it's a rented property, I could, following the correct procedure, have it done and deduct the cost from the rent, but it's a slow process.
You're right about the condensation though, it was particularly cold this morning and up until now it did appear to be improved!!
Now that our old place is done and sorted and work isn't quite so hectic I'm going to start pushing harder as we've not had much beyond "I'll call the management company again" from the agent so far. There is a clause in our contract about reducing rent due to uninhabitable, so I'll also be speaking to the agent about that too
Thats not uninhabitable in relation to a garage. You dont habit a garage. You will be on very dodgy footings if you start to withold rent and would have a court summons very quickly - (speaking as a letting agent) The issue is that it's a rented property, I could, following the correct procedure, have it done and deduct the cost from the rent, but it's a slow process.
You're right about the condensation though, it was particularly cold this morning and up until now it did appear to be improved!!
Now that our old place is done and sorted and work isn't quite so hectic I'm going to start pushing harder as we've not had much beyond "I'll call the management company again" from the agent so far. There is a clause in our contract about reducing rent due to uninhabitable, so I'll also be speaking to the agent about that too
If gullys are blocked then yes they should be cleared, it can be convoluted if you are renting a flat as the managing agents of the block (not the Letting agents) are the ones carrying out the works.
Some bunding/sand bags across the front of the garage would prevent the risk of reflooding. Just move it when you take the bike in and out? If the flooding is prevented, the condensation situation should hopefully improve though I'd agree it will never be great. Is there any power out there? If so, you could put a carcoon or something inside the garage - not ideal but probably cheaper long term than alternative storage and when you move you can take it with you/resell it. Not sure whether this would be an improvement if you don't have a power supply though.
superlightr said:
You will be on very dodgy footings if you start to withold rent and would have a court summons very quickly - (speaking as a letting agent)
That's why we're not just going to be withholding the rent, I even said as much in the post you quoted!!Speaking as a
No doubt these agents must be "a minority" yet I've never met a single person, landlord or tenant, that's had a good word to say about a letting agent...
offshorematt2 said:
Some bunding/sand bags across the front of the garage would prevent the risk of reflooding. Just move it when you take the bike in and out? If the flooding is prevented, the condensation situation should hopefully improve though I'd agree it will never be great. Is there any power out there? If so, you could put a carcoon or something inside the garage - not ideal but probably cheaper long term than alternative storage and when you move you can take it with you/resell it. Not sure whether this would be an improvement if you don't have a power supply though.
Unfortunately no power supply (you wouldn't turn it on anyway with the amount of water in there) and the layout of the area precludes physical barricades without causing increased flooding issues for neighbouring garages... I did look at bike versions of the carcoon, but as it's going to be off the road this winter anyway and I have a relative who has generously offered to let me store it at her house which has a garage that doesn't flood and leak so it's not really necessary...superlightr said:
Thats not uninhabitable in relation to a garage. You dont habit a garage. You will be on very dodgy footings if you start to withold rent and would have a court summons very quickly - (speaking as a letting agent)
If gullys are blocked then yes they should be cleared, it can be convoluted if you are renting a flat as the managing agents of the block (not the Letting agents) are the ones carrying out the works.
If gullys are blocked then yes they should be cleared, it can be convoluted if you are renting a flat as the managing agents of the block (not the Letting agents) are the ones carrying out the works.
^^^^absolutely agree, the onus on any tenancy opening inventory is with the tenant, and
especially for a tenant who failed to inspect the garage prior to signing the tenancy agreement, the same type of agreement that has no cooling off period.
A search on google of the rental address my give details of the Management Company, then a search of the same on Duedil might reveal director/s and telephone contact details.
https://www.duedil.com/
Wings said:
especially for a tenant who failed to inspect the garage prior to signing the tenancy agreement, the same type of agreement that has no cooling off period.
How would you propose we inspect the garage when the agent didn't even have keys for it when we moved in? The agent's process was to sign the lease to release the keys and it should have been done before we moved, however due to the agent f
king up the process and failing to send us the paperwork we were left with a van full of furniture and nowhere to put it without travelling to them to sort out their own errorOur previous rental handover was conducted at the property, we signed the lease at the time and everything went smoothly, we were under the impression that the process would be similar at this one, if we'd walked in and seen the place in the state it was I'd have been very tempted to walk away, even with a van and only two weeks remaining on our old tenancy
The garage was inspected during the viewings that took place a month or so before we moved, at the time it was dry, perhaps it was my error for failing to ask specifically if it flooded during moderate rain, or if the roof leaked. In the same vein I also neglected to ask if the boiler leaked carbon monoxide or the gas hobs had a tendency to explode - I'd expect a boiler to be properly maintained in the same way Id expect a garage not to be under an inch of water
Thanks for the duedil.com link, I already know who manages the property, I've tried contacting them but they refuse to deal with me as I'm not renting directly from them, for the moment it seems endless calls to the agent is about the only thing we can do...
the_lone_wolf said:
superlightr said:
You will be on very dodgy footings if you start to withold rent and would have a court summons very quickly - (speaking as a letting agent)
That's why we're not just going to be withholding the rent, I even said as much in the post you quoted!!Speaking as a
No doubt these agents must be "a minority" yet I've never met a single person, landlord or tenant, that's had a good word to say about a letting agent...
offshorematt2 said:
Some bunding/sand bags across the front of the garage would prevent the risk of reflooding. Just move it when you take the bike in and out? If the flooding is prevented, the condensation situation should hopefully improve though I'd agree it will never be great. Is there any power out there? If so, you could put a carcoon or something inside the garage - not ideal but probably cheaper long term than alternative storage and when you move you can take it with you/resell it. Not sure whether this would be an improvement if you don't have a power supply though.
Unfortunately no power supply (you wouldn't turn it on anyway with the amount of water in there) and the layout of the area precludes physical barricades without causing increased flooding issues for neighboring garages... I did look at bike versions of the carcoon, but as it's going to be off the road this winter anyway and I have a relative who has generously offered to let me store it at her house which has a garage that doesn't flood and leak so it's not really necessary...the_lone_wolf said:
There is a clause in our contract about reducing rent due to uninhabitability, so I'll also be speaking to the agent about that too
You did imply you would not pay the full rent.the_lone_wolf said:
I think it's their first time renting, and combined with an agent that so far has made letting agents elsewhere seem efficient and motivated,
hang on - in one of your first posts you said other agents you have dealt with have been fine, now you are saying you've not met anyone with a good word for a LA and all the agents you have met have been incompetent despite other ones you have met being efficient and motivated !Your current LA was in hospital and then when he was out got he was on the case immediately and then you got an instant apology from the Landlord for the condition and inventory.
You also say that it sounded like the LL was a first timer - perhaps that was the condition the LL left the property in and the LL prepare their own inventory - so not the fault of the LA who was in hospital.... Have you asked for £x for x hours of cleaning? Im sure you will get a token something ie £40 or whatever. As you said its not a big deal the cleaning side but anoying nonetheless.
The garage we have discussed - its getting sorted - again not the LA fault it has a run in of flood water - perhaps the owners/lack of cleaning gullys but either way not suitable for the storage of your stuff you wanted to put there. The construction alone also shows is not suitable for storing anything save for a car in.
Clearly the LL should not have left things in the garage. Keys for the garage being given to you by the LL as the LA did not have it when moving in. This would imply that its the LL has messed up not the LA. The LL has left the property in a dirty condition not the LA.
over the top fees - so whats the exact break down - seriously be curious to hear. Happy to help another PH with the other side of the fence view/procedure.
Edited by superlightr on Friday 5th December 12:37
superlightr said:
You did imply you would not pay the full rent.
I said I'd be speaking to him, didn't mean to imply I'd begin negotiations by witholding rent, I'm annoyed but not daft 
WRT the rest of my post, I have to apologise, it's been a stressful few weeks and it ended up turning into a rant
Yes, our old agents were fine, but by fine I meant not hopelessly inept - as above they never got things fixed, even a leaking pipe causing the kitchen floor tiles to curl in the corners didn't even warrant a visit, when we gave our notice, they only brought two sets of prospective tenants to view the place, at the same time, but managed to make two more appointments for viewings and not show up, and a third after the place had been let!! The first time we saw any kind of efficiency was at our checking out, the agent was new, and frankly a breath of fresh air compared to anybody we've previously dealt with, shame we're leaving them just as someone good takes over...
To clarify a few other things, both our current and previous landlords are first timers, our previous lived abroad, our current did hire a cleaning company to clean, the LA hired a 3rd party company to do the inventory. Yes, he was hosptitalised but only for a few days before our move date, he had six weeks to organise the paperwork we ended up doing on our moving day. Referencing fees were again outsourced to a 3rd party company at £120 each. My wife isn't working at the moment so the entire referencing process involved a couple of online credit checks, a call to our previous agent, and a thirty second phonecall to my boss asking him if I worked for him. Strikes me as a good ruse for £240
The garage can be suitable for storage of most of our stuff, the issues it has are due to lack of maintenance and are not inherent to the design or construction, the neighbouring garage occupier has had much success with just attacking the roof himself to clear the build up of crap, and that's something I'm intending to discuss with our agent as well.
I had exactly similar at my old flat.
When I looked at the garage, the agent opened it and showed it to me. All seemed good.
When I moved in, I filled the garage with bits and also my E30 resto project.
After the first bit of rain, I relaised that the roof was full of holes, hidden by moss.
The water would come into the garage and pool at the back. It ruined a load of my stuff in boxes.
I complained to the letting agent and they said that I should have asked if the roof was intact when I viewed it and that it was my responsibility!
I took legal advice and managed to get out of the contract at no cost, which suited me fine as it turned out, I hate living in a flat!
When I looked at the garage, the agent opened it and showed it to me. All seemed good.
When I moved in, I filled the garage with bits and also my E30 resto project.
After the first bit of rain, I relaised that the roof was full of holes, hidden by moss.
The water would come into the garage and pool at the back. It ruined a load of my stuff in boxes.
I complained to the letting agent and they said that I should have asked if the roof was intact when I viewed it and that it was my responsibility!
I took legal advice and managed to get out of the contract at no cost, which suited me fine as it turned out, I hate living in a flat!
23rdian said:
You should have checked before signing anything however the lettings game in this country is a disgrace.
Do other people exist in a magical world where you're given the keys to a place before you sign anything and can live there for a period to check if there's absolutely anything that's not right??Honestly, we were as explicit as we could be with the requirement of a garage and what it was for to the agent on two occasions and the landlord on one, I saw the garage and it appeared old but serviceable and dry, the wife loved the flat so I was willing to take a hit for a period until we buy our own place where I can get a decent garage for my stuff!!
I'm not expecting a double garage with built in airlines and two post lift or anything like that, I just want something to stop the rain landing on the bike and a few other items - and at the moment that's not what we have...
the_lone_wolf said:
I said I'd be speaking to him, didn't mean to imply I'd begin negotiations by witholding rent, I'm annoyed but not daft
WRT the rest of my post, I have to apologise, it's been a stressful few weeks and it ended up turning into a rant
Yes, our old agents were fine, but by fine I meant not hopelessly inept - as above they never got things fixed, even a leaking pipe causing the kitchen floor tiles to curl in the corners didn't even warrant a visit, when we gave our notice, they only brought two sets of prospective tenants to view the place, at the same time, but managed to make two more appointments for viewings and not show up, and a third after the place had been let!! The first time we saw any kind of efficiency was at our checking out, the agent was new, and frankly a breath of fresh air compared to anybody we've previously dealt with, shame we're leaving them just as someone good takes over...
To clarify a few other things, both our current and previous landlords are first timers, our previous lived abroad, our current did hire a cleaning company to clean, the LA hired a 3rd party company to do the inventory. Yes, he was hosptitalised but only for a few days before our move date, he had six weeks to organise the paperwork we ended up doing on our moving day. Referencing fees were again outsourced to a 3rd party company at £120 each. My wife isn't working at the moment so the entire referencing process involved a couple of online credit checks, a call to our previous agent, and a thirty second phonecall to my boss asking him if I worked for him. Strikes me as a good ruse for £240
The garage can be suitable for storage of most of our stuff, the issues it has are due to lack of maintenance and are not inherent to the design or construction, the neighbouring garage occupier has had much success with just attacking the roof himself to clear the build up of crap, and that's something I'm intending to discuss with our agent as well.
So your agents didnt charge you £500 which was your headline figure they charged £240 including VAT ? for 2 applicants and the rest was moving fees you would have incurred where ever you went to. Im just keen to try and get a fair pic of the agents - if they were crap then so be it but just curious.WRT the rest of my post, I have to apologise, it's been a stressful few weeks and it ended up turning into a rant
Yes, our old agents were fine, but by fine I meant not hopelessly inept - as above they never got things fixed, even a leaking pipe causing the kitchen floor tiles to curl in the corners didn't even warrant a visit, when we gave our notice, they only brought two sets of prospective tenants to view the place, at the same time, but managed to make two more appointments for viewings and not show up, and a third after the place had been let!! The first time we saw any kind of efficiency was at our checking out, the agent was new, and frankly a breath of fresh air compared to anybody we've previously dealt with, shame we're leaving them just as someone good takes over...
To clarify a few other things, both our current and previous landlords are first timers, our previous lived abroad, our current did hire a cleaning company to clean, the LA hired a 3rd party company to do the inventory. Yes, he was hosptitalised but only for a few days before our move date, he had six weeks to organise the paperwork we ended up doing on our moving day. Referencing fees were again outsourced to a 3rd party company at £120 each. My wife isn't working at the moment so the entire referencing process involved a couple of online credit checks, a call to our previous agent, and a thirty second phonecall to my boss asking him if I worked for him. Strikes me as a good ruse for £240
The garage can be suitable for storage of most of our stuff, the issues it has are due to lack of maintenance and are not inherent to the design or construction, the neighbouring garage occupier has had much success with just attacking the roof himself to clear the build up of crap, and that's something I'm intending to discuss with our agent as well.
£240 is pretty reasonable fees to referencing tbh. tenancy agreements and inventories etc. We charge two tenants £375 +vat in total for referencing and admin. Previous landlords referencing, CCJ searches, Bankruptcy searches, employment references, character references, tenancy agreements, registering the deposit, inventory.
Although this is Likely to go up when the gov further force us to check the immigration status of every tenant and monitor it yearly.
Im sure you will but be carful with working with the asbestos garage/drilling/breaking/jetting.
Hope you can get it sorted. Often as agents we can get repairs sorted quickly if just allowed to by LL. Moreover its the landlords that delay us. Hopefully we are one of the more efficient agents. We only let. Do your agents do sales as well as lets?
superlightr said:
£240 is pretty reasonable fees to referencing tbh. tenancy agreements and inventories etc. We charge two tenants £375 +vat in total for referencing and admin. Previous landlords referencing, CCJ searches, Bankruptcy searches, employment references, character references, tenancy agreements, registering the deposit, inventory.
Have to disagree. Before the credit crunch the estate agents I worked at charged £30 for this service and that was per letting agreement, not applicant. In fact that was competitive at the time.Nowadays with the heavy reliance upon rent it's now competitive to charge several hundred to do the following activity:
- print a form
- receive a form
- post it to credit search company (approx £15/applicant)
- receive results
- accept/decline
Absolute rip-off!
John145 said:
Have to disagree. Before the credit crunch the estate agents I worked at charged £30 for this service and that was per letting agreement, not applicant. In fact that was competitive at the time.
Nowadays with the heavy reliance upon rent it's now competitive to charge several hundred to do the following activity:
- print a form
- receive a form
- post it to credit search company (approx £15/applicant)
- receive results
- accept/decline
Absolute rip-off!
I know of companies charging £400 plus for this and you get contract and check inventory.Nowadays with the heavy reliance upon rent it's now competitive to charge several hundred to do the following activity:
- print a form
- receive a form
- post it to credit search company (approx £15/applicant)
- receive results
- accept/decline
Absolute rip-off!
As stated costs are £15-£20 per applicant and plus some admin say £50 tops and £50 for the inventory clerk.
2 tenants typically £40+£50+£50 = £140 = £260 pure profit.
Plus that fact the landlord will be paying £50-£100 for inventory and tenancy agreement.
Money for old rope I had one agent did a an inspection on a fully managed property after 18 months!
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff